Recommend
8 
 Thumb up
 Hide
37 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Wargames» Forums » General

Subject: Yet wd like to reccommend some really complex wargame rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Martin Chudarek
Czech Republic
flag msg tools
Hi, Im looking fir easier one.. Julius caesar was reccommended to me nd the other game should be very complex, difficult and long playtime with high replayability, aswell historically realistic, from ancient times to modern, doesnt matter, main objective is difficulcy, historically well done nd long playtime, wwI, II, napoleonic, ancient, modern.. Its not an objective, just looking for something really heavy
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rex Stites
United States
Lawrence
Kansas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Great Battles of History games cover Greek and Roman warfare at the tactical level. I don't know if you're looking for a game without much text like you were in the other thread, but these would satisfy it. Not all battles work well as competitive games, but usually each volume has some that do. The setups for most battles (at least for more recent titles) usually give some idea of which side is favored. You can find battles that are close to 50/50 balance that way if you're looking for more competitive games (or you can find battles that will provide a good handicap if the two players are not of the same skill level).
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Johannsen

Virginia
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Gulf Strike, if you want something complex and rich (or Pacific War, another Mark Herman monster).


Dave
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Roger Hobden
Canada
Montreal
Quebec
flag msg tools
Avatar
Some people say that the following games might be considered to be complex:

Advanced Squad Leader

Case Blue

Hurtgen: Hell's Forest

Last Blitzkrieg

Birds of Prey: Air Combat in the Jet Age


8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Clay Stone
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar

Hurtgen: Hell's Forest (WWII)

Atlantic Wall: D-Day to Falaise (WWII)

Beyond Valor: ASL Module 1

War in the Pacific (second edition)

Downtown: Air War Over Hanoi, 1965-1972


...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judd Vance
United States
Wichita
Kansas
flag msg tools
Every Man a (K-State) Wildcat!
badge
"Just get that sucka to the designated place at the designated time and I will gladly designate his ass...for dismemberment!" - Sho Nuff.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Vietnam 1965-1975.

I would second Gulf Strike, but that is an alt-history game, so I'll go back to this beast. Have fun.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Damo
Australia
Hobart
Tasmania
flag msg tools
Look Up! Stay Alive!
badge
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Drop-Bear
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb


The Campaign for North Africa
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bruce
United States
Aiken
South Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
The Necronomicon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnbYcB9ctu8
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Start with the Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1 and work your way up from there. Alternately, get Reluctant Enemies or Tunisia II and dive into the OCS system.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jeb
United States
San Jose
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
There are so many options here that I'm not sure where to start. First, I like complex games but only if there is a payoff for the extra complexity. Not many games make the cut in my opinion.

Some very good complex games have already been mentioned. I would add the following.

If you like linear battle games I would suggest La Bataille series series games or Battles from the Age of Reason (BAR). I like BAR as it has some really interesting battles and has some good tight rules.

If you like strategic games I would suggest World in Flames Deluxe Edition.

If you like strategic sci-if I would suggest Federation & Empire the 2003 edition.

You should check them all out.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jason Godinho
Canada
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I highly recommend Empire of the Sun a Mark Herman classic. It's complex in the sense that there is nothing else like it. One of the most satisfying games I've learned.
11 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
G. Parker
United States
Norman
Oklahoma
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Can't believe A World at War wasn't first on the list. Definitely has long play time, historical accuracy and even more complex since by the time you finish with the rules they latest living rules have been posted up. I do have to say though that even with the detail and complexity it all logically makes sense, great system.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
michael connor
United States
Berkeley
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Central America, La Grande Guerre 14-18 and Home Before the Leaves Fall: The Marne Campaign 1914 immediately come to mind. All multi-manual convoluted works of genius, largely unappreciated due to their intimidating appearance but who's sub-systems are really not all that complex.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tony Doran
United States
Columbia
Tennessee
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Advanced European Theater of Operations and Advanced European Theater of Operations: Africa Orientale Italiana together with Advanced Pacific Theater of Operations together cover all of WWII.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zigi Hogan
United States
The Ozarks
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
What's it going to be then, eh?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

BIG +1 for Great Battles of History!
Accept no others for your Ancients game of awesome!

I will always suggest Advanced Squad Leader and the suggestion of starting with Advanced Squad Leader: Starter Kit #1 and working up is a good one.

If complexity and length are of no consequence then why not go with the gold standard of heavy/complex games.

I can't believe there is finally a thread where a legitimate answer would be Case Blue!
10 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul
Switzerland
Basel
Basel Stadt
flag msg tools
designer
badge
"Capitaine Conan," by Roger Vercel (1934).
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Hi Martin,

If you're interested in the time period, I'd recommend 1914: Twilight in the East. It's a heavy, complex game, but it's also fun and rewarding to play. It has a campaign that takes many sessions to play. It also lends itself well to team play if you're looking for something you can play with multiple players as well.
3 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Johannsen

Virginia
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
airjudden wrote:
Vietnam 1965-1975.

I would second Gulf Strike, but that is an alt-history game, so I'll go back to this beast. Have fun.


I took some liberties with "historically realistic." Gulf Strike is certainly a realistic simulation (of possible events), but is not how history actually unfolded. So, maybe I should just have recommended Pacific War.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benny Bosmans
Belgium
Mechelen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Adding complexity for the sake of complexity is not really interesting.

A good wargame does not need to be complex in its rules department either.

As to realism, that's something that belongs to the eye of the beholder.

In the end you (mostly) roll dice and bang you hit or not ...

Substracting a zillion +1 or -1 and going through a few dozen CRT does not always mean "realism" either.


We lost something along the way of The Russian Campaign and the Pacific War or the latest more difficult COIN and the moment rule errors are more important than your general strategy to win, it shows a failed state of design Art really.


These days it is RARE we can play a turn without an error here and there. As long as it is a solo game and you have fun, there is nothing to worry about, but "realism" goes quickly out of the window if fighting against rule books too .

I still remember one of the golden rules within ASL. If you see an error after it is played, don't go back, just continue. So it is not a present day problem either...
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Apex
North Carolina
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Really anything from the La Bataille series or Battles from the Age of Reason (BAR) families are deep, rewarding, complex, and beautiful.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rosecrans man
United States
Norridge
Illinois
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If you have any interest in the American Civil War, you might try the Line of Battle series from MMP/The Gamers or Great Battles of the American Civil War from GMT.

If you have any interest in 17th Century combat (and, really, who doesn't) you might want to give the system from GMT which includes This Accursed Civil War (English Civil War), Sweden Fights On (30 Years, post Gustavus Adolphus), or Nothing Gained but Glory (1670s Scanian War).

I agree with a previous poster about Clash of Arms' BAR system. It IS THE tactical system to study the 18th Century.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kristopher
United States
Allentown
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Hey, buddy, can you spare a role?
badge
I jotted it down in my Risk campaign book. I always used to do that so I could replay my moments of glory over a glass of brandy in the sleeping quarters. --Arnold J. Rimmer--
Avatar
mbmb
The old Avalon Hill Classic Rise and Decline of the Third Reich. And unlike some of the other games mentioned - you should be able to pick up a copy for relatively cheap anymore.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andy Daglish
United Kingdom
Cheadle
Cheshire
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You won't be able to exploit Ardennes '44 to a high degree, so I'd start with The Caucasus Campaign, and see if you can knock your brainpower onto the map.

There's a difference between highly intelligent design and crap writ large. Admittedly the crapness makes play much more difficult.

As for Case Bloo, it & OCS derive from Winter Storm, from the Hadean Era. It had some good ideas [long-barrelled Pz.IV fires two hexes], but why play supply rules such as these when you can do the same better in games like Food Chain Magnate?

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Enrico Viglino
United States
Eugene
Oregon
flag msg tools
Slowed - BGG's moderation policies have driven me partially from here
badge
http://thegamebox.byethost15.com/smf/
Avatar
mb
aforandy wrote:

As for Case Bloo, it & OCS derive from Winter Storm, from the Hadean Era.



Given that the focus is on the supply and taking into account the
way combat works, I've always thought they derived more from
The Desert Fox, even if the more intuitive supply system
of the OCS is easier to handle (IMO). Maybe from CNA, second hand.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Warren Bruhn
United States
Roseburg
Oregon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MapleMatt wrote:
...the other game should be very complex, difficult and long playtime with high replayability, aswell historically realistic, ... just looking for something really heavy


Not sure what you mean by "long playtime," but one of my favorite complex games to leave set up and play with 6 friends for 200+ hours over several months is:



But Empires in Arms (ADG 1983, TAHGC 1986) needs 7 players. It was designed by the same people who designed World in Flames (ADG 1985). I believe there are players in the Czech Republic. It's my favorite wargame of all time, in spite of it's many problems (unclear rules and other issues).

If 20 hours is more what you mean by "long playtime" then I'd recommend:



The Civil War (VG 1983) is an excellent and very engaging 2 player operational/strategic wargame. There is a new and improved player generated rulebook that can be downloaded from the BGG page for The Civil War. I enjoy playing this one solitaire. There is also a community that plays the game via Vassal. It's my second favorite wargame of all time.

If 10 hours is more what you mean by "long playtime" then I'd recommend:



Paths of Glory (GMT 1999) is a fantastic card driven wargame, currently ranked #3 wargame on BGG. It's very engaging, with a lot of stress for the players. There is a more recent version with thicker cardboard map and thicker pieces. There's also extra cards available.

If you want to leave a big wargame with many pieces set up for perhaps 120 hours of play, then I would recommend:



The Devil's Cauldron: The Battles for Arnhem and Nijmegen (MMP 2008) is the most beautiful cardboard wargame that I've ever seen. It is reasonably fun to play, and a good experience for 2 to 6 players over the long multi-day campaign. If you have the room to leave it set up for a few weeks, it's a great work of art to have. Not sure if it will be reprinted though, and prices may be high.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zigi Hogan
United States
The Ozarks
Missouri
flag msg tools
badge
What's it going to be then, eh?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Lhowser wrote:
The old Avalon Hill Classic Rise and Decline of the Third Reich. And unlike some of the other games mentioned - you should be able to pick up a copy for relatively cheap anymore.


And it's quite convenient that I have an unpunched copy for sale over at Forty-Fifth Monthly Wargame Flea - September 2016!devil
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kristopher
United States
Allentown
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
Hey, buddy, can you spare a role?
badge
I jotted it down in my Risk campaign book. I always used to do that so I could replay my moments of glory over a glass of brandy in the sleeping quarters. --Arnold J. Rimmer--
Avatar
mbmb
Zigihogan wrote:
Lhowser wrote:
The old Avalon Hill Classic Rise and Decline of the Third Reich. And unlike some of the other games mentioned - you should be able to pick up a copy for relatively cheap anymore.


And it's quite convenient that I have an unpunched copy for sale over at Forty-Fifth Monthly Wargame Flea - September 2016!devil


Of course, I sold MY unpunched copy for $15! shake
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.