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Subject: why such the love or hate of Talisman? rss

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Chris Father
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My wife and I enjoy Talisman the 4th revised edition very much. When we started in the board gaming hobby. There was nothing we had played much in board games before that . we came from mostly tabletop miniatures gaming my wife and me . And were talked down when we showed our excitement for Talisman. Since we didn't understand the gaming (Board Games Culture) and told that Ameritrash wasn't appreciated!! We were stunned to let alone not understanding the terminology. And the more we asked the more we were left confused. Those days have since passed. As we learned the gamer politics and terms.But our love for our first game has never wavered.
Now we play lots of other games .But we still love Talisman to this day.We have friends that come to our home to play it. But whenever we bring it to a convention or a board game event .We get condescending comments to this day. Now that the game is going to be a dead game. We are glad we have most the expansions . What have others experienced about this game and the ups and downs when trying to play it? So do you like the game? Do you hate it ? And why is it not just accepted? It's okay to not like a game on its own merits I get that. But why so much snobbery to those that do like it?
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Because of the roll-and-move mechanism, many people (including here, oddly) falsely believe Talisman is mainly a game of luck with few meaningful decisions.

Another reason why some dislike it (and this one has merit) is that the endgame is a bit of a mess, and can drag on much longer than it should.

In any case, it's a fun game, and an important one, too. Don't let anybody tell you that you shouldn't enjoy it.
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John Prewitt
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Because in it's basic state it's a terrible game. There's no real exploration as you see everything, it's roll and move, it's roll for combat, you can lose 3+ turns in a row, you can start from scratch 3 hours in the game, it can literally take 6-8 hours to finish, etc. It's truly awful without house rules. With some expansions and 10-20 house rules and hard alcohol it CAN be fun, but there's just so many other better games out there. Talisman was also the FIRST game I bought that got me into the hobby and we sold it off pretty fast after that.

My favorite house rule personally was you can either choose to move 1 space in any direction, or roll, and if you roll you have to keep the roll. I had like 3-4 pages of rules I made up for that game but after awhile it just wasn't worth it to keep, though I wish I did now because I sold it and all the expansions for like $45-50 and now I'd get a few hundred...
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I am also a fan of Talisman (any edition of it).

The 2 biggest issues "modern" gamers have with it are:
1) Roll and move
2) Can take a long time to finish

The sheer amount of randomness involved in the huge decks of adventure cards is unfortunately also a turn off.

Euro nay German nay Designer games have brought a lot of new people into the gaming hobby, so I appreciate that. But most Designer games are short. The people who have entered the hobby playing Designer games expect a game to be short. They also almost universally despise roll and move.

I grew up with Avalon Hill and SPI, so dice are permanently infused into what I expect a game to include.

And I hate Americans for embracing the term 'ameritrash'. It was absolutely meant as an insult by the Europeans who coined the term. Also, in every other use of 'trash' as an adjective it is not meant kindly. 'ameritrash' needs to die a swift and violent death and a better term, like 'original' used instead.

-ampoliros
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Stuart
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I love Talisman but it's a dated roll-and-move game but... you have to make peace with that otherwise you won't enjoy it. I always think of it as an experience game, with the game mostly playing you.

Many of the expansions actually resolve a lot of the randomness of Talisman. A player who picks the Mule follower and can upgrade their carrying limit from four to eight has a distinct advantage but the expansion introduced Stables where you can buy Mules if you land there. Some magic items allow you to toggle your movement roll by 1 space. More importantly, the end game condition now has lots of interesting variants whereas before it was a mind-numbing anticlimax (just stay on the Crown Of Command square and roll a die every turn and hope you get a five or six to make other players lose a life.) Plus Fantasy Flight's introduction of Fate points that allow you to re-roll a die was much needed.
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Boaty McBoatface
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As someone who both loves and hates Talisman here is why.

I love the idea of the game, I even love some of the game play, I just hate just how much luck can affect the game. Yes your choices can have some affect, but if the dice are not with you you just aint gona win, not matter how great your game plan.

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John Prewitt
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I think "thematic" is a bit better of a description. Ameritrash just sounds stupid. I don't like pure thematic/euro games and prefer hybrids or spinoffs.

slatersteven wrote:
As someone who both loves and hates Talisman here is why.

I love the idea of the game, I even love some of the game play, I just hate just how much luck can affect the game. Yes your choices can have some affect, but if the dice are not with you you just aint gona win, not matter how great your game plan.



What "game plan" can you possibly develop in Talisman besides "level up a lot, hope you roll well".
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'Bernard Wingrave'
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I am not a fan of Talisman. I played it a few times, most recently several years ago. My impressions:

Talisman is a long game that has a lot of randomness (decks of cards, rolling to move) which is a combination I don't care for. It has a fantasy setting and is at least partly about making your character more powerful, but it doesn't feel thematic/immersive to me -- I don't have a sense of really walking around in a fantasy world and doing heroic things. If your character is killed, yes, you can start another one, but in many cases the other characters will be so far ahead of you that your chances of winning are low -- so it's not exactly player elimination, but it's close.
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Francisco Gutierrez
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Roll and move is a bad game mechanism. Talisman is a roll and move game. I probably wouldn't play Talisman if you asked.

I don't think boardgame snobs scoff at Talisman as much as other games, like Munchkin, Monopoly or Zombies!!! I can admit, that I have been at least standoffish when a "casual gamer" interrupts a game I'm playing to ask about "the hobby".

It truely depends on the persons attitude, but sometimes I feel like the person doesn't really like boardgames, and wants to play or talk to get some kind of "nerd cred". Stuff like, "so is this like monopoly" or "wow! You really like this?" rubs me the wrong way, like I'm being observed rather than spoken to.

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Stuart
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And big chunky miniatures!
 
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John Prewitt
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pawnvsdice wrote:
And big chunky miniatures!


Yeah that reminds me of how there was literally zero balancing from the core heroes to the expansion heroes. The expansion heroes were AMAZING in comparison, and we just removed all the core heroes from the game minus a few of the "ok" ones.
 
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Derry Salewski
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You have to know your audience.

Tabletop gaming is pretty broad. Just assuming everyone will like your favorite game is gonna set you up for them explaining they don't.

And some of them might use condescension like you you use punctuation: Enthusiastically and awkwardly.
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Cris Whetstone
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It's hip for modern Euro gamers to get their cred by displaying hate for older popular games that have mechanisms deemed dishonored by the group think. Since Talisman has roll and move and is popular among Ameritrash players it's an easy target for someone wanting to display their colors for the Euro gamer crowd. As with many things in the modern internet age it's not actually how much you dislike something or even how correct you might be but how extreme you can sound displaying your opinion.
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79strat wrote:
Because in it's basic state it's a terrible game.
-snip-

A game including the use of dice for movement or combat results is not instantly a 'terrible' game. If it weren't for the early games from AH and SPI among others, which nearly all included dice for something or other, there wouldn't be the hobby we all enjoy today.

I enjoy a good euro as much as the next person, but I also enjoy games with prolific use of dice. It gets really old to constantly hear people poo-pooing (with strong language) games with dice rolling mechanics.
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Boaty McBoatface
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79strat wrote:
I think "thematic" is a bit better of a description. Ameritrash just sounds stupid. I don't like pure thematic/euro games and prefer hybrids or spinoffs.

slatersteven wrote:
As someone who both loves and hates Talisman here is why.

I love the idea of the game, I even love some of the game play, I just hate just how much luck can affect the game. Yes your choices can have some affect, but if the dice are not with you you just aint gona win, not matter how great your game plan.



What "game plan" can you possibly develop in Talisman besides "level up a lot, hope you roll well".
You have some choice as to what direction you move in, so can try and play safe or risky.

But pretty much that is it. That is why I said that your luck massively out weighs it.

 
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Boaty McBoatface
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pawnvsdice wrote:
And big chunky miniatures!
Not my edition.
 
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John Prewitt
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ampoliros wrote:
79strat wrote:
Because in it's basic state it's a terrible game.
-snip-

A game including the use of dice for movement or combat results is not instantly a 'terrible' game. If it weren't for the early games from AH and SPI among others, which nearly all included dice for something or other, there wouldn't be the hobby we all enjoy today.

I enjoy a good euro as much as the next person, but I also enjoy games with prolific use of dice. It gets really old to constantly hear people poo-pooing (with strong language) games with dice rolling mechanics.


Except that is the entire game. You roll to move and you roll to fight. That's literally all you do besides drawing cards and choosing "left or right". It almost falls into the "activity" instead of a "game" category. And you cut off my further explanations as to why it's a terrible game - it's just not because of the "dice rolling". Can you earnestly defend the TOAD mechanic? And there's a difference between using dice in a game and a roll-to-move system, which is outdated and boring. Don't get me wrong, it can be fun with alcohol and house rules, and I'd play it over Munchkin any day, but it's just not a "good" or even decent game IMO.
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Stuart
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slatersteven wrote:
pawnvsdice wrote:
And big chunky miniatures!
Not my edition.


The expansions had notably slimmed down miniatures compared to the base game. I think Fantasy Flight actually said it was to do with production costs when queried. But going back to the above poster who mentioned the imbalance of the expansion characters, I guess you trade power creep for plastic!
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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pawnvsdice wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
pawnvsdice wrote:
And big chunky miniatures!
Not my edition.


The expansions had notably slimmed down miniatures compared to the base game. I think Fantasy Flight actually said it was to do with production costs when queried. But going back to the above poster who mentioned the imbalance of the expansion characters, I guess you trade power creep for plastic!
LOL.

I am talking about the fact my edition has cardboard standies.
 
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Stuart
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Anyhow, all my fury for Talisman is reserved for the Woodland expansion because it came in a smaller sized box and doesn't match my other Talisman expansion boxes. And... there's an extra fold in the corner board because of the smaller box!

(I actually considered printing a regular sized Woodland box so everything would match up but realised just how nuts that was.)
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John Prewitt
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pawnvsdice wrote:
Anyhow, all my fury for Talisman is reserved for the Woodland expansion because it came in a smaller sized box and doesn't match my other Talisman expansion boxes. And... there's an extra fold in the corner board because of the smaller box!

(I actually considered printing a regular sized Woodland box so everything would match up but realised just how nuts that was.)


What's nuts is keeping expansion boxes. Next you're gonna tell me you keep the inserts, too?
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Stuart
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slatersteven wrote:
I am talking about the fact my edition has cardboard standies.


Oh, the early edition? At least you don't have the conundrum of whether to paint them or not that us gamers with the figurines have. I have to resist by chanting the mantra "it would spoil them".
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Chris Father
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Thank you for an insightful thoughtful reply. I now also use the term Amerigold instead of Ameritrash. We also have played house rules were no one becomes a toad.Other times we use the rules as stated.
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Jim McMahon
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ampoliros wrote:

And I hate Americans for embracing the term 'ameritrash'. It was absolutely meant as an insult by the Europeans who coined the term.

The same can be said of "Yankee Doodle," yet it is an incredibly patriotic song. Things change. We get over it.
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Stuart
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79strat wrote:
Next you're gonna tell me you keep the inserts, too?


Last week while tidying a cupboard I found a plastic bag full of old game box inserts. I don't even remember bagging them up. Must be some unconscious reflex action that happens when I realise a Plano box would be better...
 
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