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Subject: Apocalypse Track: +1 Reaction Token rss

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Ryan Everly
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On the Apocalypse track, there is text that reads:

"Sins player gets +1 Reaction per round"


Let's say that we're playing a game with three heroes. Naturally, the Sins Player would get three reaction tokens- one for each hero. Then, the Sins Player achieves level four on the Apocalypse track, gaining +1 reaction per round.

Does this mean that he now, naturally, gets four reactions for the rest of the game, or is the +1 cumulative, meaning that next round he'll get four reactions and the round after that he'll get five (and so on)?
 
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Paul Glickman
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Four for rest of the game, I'm quite certain!

I'm not sure why I'm certain. There'd be a way to count it if it was meant to scale up, and that's a sufficiently strange rule that it'd need to be called out somewhere!
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I believe the Apocalypse track says "+1 reaction token EACH round" so you would get 4, then 5, and so on. I still stand by this, because according to the rules on page 17

RESET TOKENS
Each Hero flips both of their Turn tokens back to their
active side. If they saved any Extra Turn tokens, they
keep them to spend in the next Rounds.
Heroes also take back their City Action tokens from the
board and place them next to their Hero Dashboards.
The Sins Player flips his Reaction tokens back to their active
side. Any extra Reaction tokens he might have gained
during the previous Round must be discarded, unless the
effect that granted them is ongoing (such as the extra
Reaction token granted by the Apocalypse Track)
.


Page 17 of the rule book.

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Max Maloney
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It's absolutely a flat +1 reaction for the remainder of the game. There's no way it would be worded that way if you gained an increasing amount, round after round.
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Ryan Everly
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This whole thing spawned from an argument that my friend and I had. I'm interpreting the text as a flat four reactions per round. He's reading it as "you get +1 reaction this round, and one additional reaction for every round thereafter."

I know the game is supposed to be hard for the heroes, but the way he interprets the rule would make it rediculously hard. When would these extra actions stop accumulating? In a game with three heroes, wouldn't anything over six reactions be a waste since the Sins Player can react only once per hero turn?
 
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Paul Glickman
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That would be "+1 reaction token per round per round". A reaction token is a specific thing, not a growth of that thing. +1 reaction token per round is the same as $10 an hour. When you're paid $10 an hour, you are not paid $30 for your 3th hour.
 
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Dan Harrow
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The result is that you will end up with a 4th Reaction token every turn for the remainder of the game.

The reason for this is that at the end of each round, the Sin player is instructed discard all extra reaction tokens beyond the ones they started the game with. That is why the apocalypse track is worded that you get a reaction token on each round, because you've discarded your extra one at the end of the previous round.
 
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XeyneGaming wrote:
The result is that you will end up with a 4th Reaction token every turn for the remainder of the game.

The reason for this is that at the end of each round, the Sin player is instructed discard all extra reaction tokens beyond the ones they started the game with. That is why the apocalypse track is worded that you get a reaction token on each round, because you've discarded your extra one at the end of the previous round.


the rule book specifically says you don't discard the one from the apocalypse track though
 
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jaray wrote:

I know the game is supposed to be hard for the heroes, but the way he interprets the rule would make it rediculously hard. When would these extra actions stop accumulating? In a game with three heroes, wouldn't anything over six reactions be a waste since the Sins Player can react only once per hero turn?


I can see why you would think it would be extra difficult if the sins player gets a stacking additional reaction, however each game only ever last 2-3 rounds, rarely ever 4. The benefit of the +1 reaction token is also pretty far down the track, which means at best he can get the benefit on round 3(HATE!, and the 2 ways to raise the apocalypse track on the 1st round, and raise it by at least 1 on the 2nd round).

I have played this game 10+ and I have never came close to 6 reaction tokens, except when playing gluttony. YMMV

 
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Dan Harrow
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msyterhe wrote:
the rule book specifically says you don't discard the one from the apocalypse track though

Fair enough.

Using the same passage you quoted from page 17, it is written:

"(such as the extra Reaction token granted by the Apocalypse Track)."

This is very specifically a singular noun, implying that you only get a single token. If you were intended to continue gaining them, they should have written it plurally.
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Ryan Everly
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XeyneGaming wrote:
msyterhe wrote:
the rule book specifically says you don't discard the one from the apocalypse track though

Fair enough.

Using the same passage you quoted from page 17, it is written:

"(such as the extra Reaction token granted by the Apocalypse Track)."

This is very specifically a singular noun, implying that you only get a single token. If you were intended to continue gaining them, they should have written it plurally.


Hmmm... Good point.
 
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XeyneGaming wrote:
msyterhe wrote:
the rule book specifically says you don't discard the one from the apocalypse track though

Fair enough.

Using the same passage you quoted from page 17, it is written:

"(such as the extra Reaction token granted by the Apocalypse Track)."

This is very specifically a singular noun, implying that you only get a single token. If you were intended to continue gaining them, they should have written it plurally.


You have a good point, the singular noun does suggest you only get 1. The apocalypse track says per round though, if the rule book says you don't discard the token gained from the apocalypse track, why would it need to say "per round"? mr.eric Lang should have just put "+1 reaction token"
 
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Paul Glickman
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It shouldn't have had the "don't discard" bit. It phrases it in two different ways and makes it unclear, but the RAW seems fairly obvious here.
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Ryan Everly
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msyterhe wrote:
XeyneGaming wrote:
msyterhe wrote:
the rule book specifically says you don't discard the one from the apocalypse track though

Fair enough.

Using the same passage you quoted from page 17, it is written:

"(such as the extra Reaction token granted by the Apocalypse Track)."

This is very specifically a singular noun, implying that you only get a single token. If you were intended to continue gaining them, they should have written it plurally.


You have a good point, the singular noun does suggest you only get 1. The apocalypse track says per round though, if the rule book says you don't discard the token gained from the apocalypse track, why would it need to say "per round"? mr.eric Lang should have just put "+1 reaction token"


That may have still been too confusing for some people. I would have written it as:

"+1 Reaction token for the rest of the game."
 
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