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Legendary: A Marvel Deck Building Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Stan Lee and Divided Cards rss

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David Halstead
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If you have a Stan Lee bystander and have to say the "exact hero name" of a card. With a divided card such as Storm and Black Panther would I have to say Storm and Black Panther or would I say Black Panther or Storm and still have it count?
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Adelin Dumitru
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You have to say just one of them.
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Jeffrey
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Interesting. Their rare's hero name is "Storm & Black Panther", meaning that, from a rules as written standpoint, you'd need to say "Storm & Black Panther" for that card.

But you know, I wouldn't hold you to that if I were playing with you.
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Justin H

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Divided cards count as both sides, but just one card, until you play them. So guessing either would make it work on most of their cards. As Locutus Zero pointed out, the rare says "Storm and Black Panther". I'm agreeing with him from a strict rules standpoint that since it says exact hero name.
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Davy Ashleydale
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I've always felt that for cards that refer to "Hero Name", like Stan Lee, what they really mean is "14-card deck". So I would play it that the entire 14-card deck that contains Storm and Black Panther all have the same "Hero Name" even though the Hero Name slots on some of those cards say different things.

If I were playing a game with Storm & Black Panther, and with Storm by herself and Black Panther by himself, and if someone rescued Stan Lee, I would make them specify either, "Storm & Black Panther", "Storm", or "Black Panther". If they said "Storm" and a Storm & Black Panther card came up, I wouldn't give it to them.

Maybe I'm being too strict. But it makes the most sense to me.
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Adelin Dumitru
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Yeah, that is too strict. Stan Lee came before recruitable villains, divided cards and thr like. There is no need to live in the past, the Legendary landscape has changed quite a bit
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Jeffrey
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When you sit back and think about it, this game has gotten pretty crazy. Say you shuffled every single hero card you owned and had to give instructions to someone on how to sort them into 14-card stacks. You can't mention any cards or characters by name. How would you do it?
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Davy Ashleydale
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
Yeah, that is too strict. Stan Lee came before recruitable villains, divided cards and thr like. There is no need to live in the past, the Legendary landscape has changed quite a bit


So if someone said "Storm" and the Storm & Black Panther rare came up, you would give it to them? Its Hero Name is "Storm & Black Panther", not "Storm". But maybe you're saying that you'd rather interpret it as the Storm & Black Panther rare card has two Hero Names, not one long one. If that's the case, I wish they had written it as "Storm", "Black Panther" or something like that.

Maybe my computer programming background is getting to me. The string "A and B" is not equal to the string "A".
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Jeffrey
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I'm right there with you about trying to apply programming logic to games, but there are SO MANY cases in Legendary where you have to meet the game half way, or even decide which of 2 or 3 similar interpretations you want to go with.

I, of course, see Captain America and Captain America (Falcon) as two different hero names, for the purpose of the Stan Lee card. But I see the two Wolverines as having the same hero name. It's just a benefit of playing with those cards. If I played with Storm's old card set as well as Storm and Black Panther's set, saying "Storm" would work for both sets. For the rare to qualify, I really have to just fudge that rule, but I don't want a single card in the deck to be it's own hero name. It's the same reason I'd count the upcoming Deadpool's rare as saying "Deadpool" even though it says "Me", IIRC.
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Dan Harrow
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randomlife wrote:
I've always felt that for cards that refer to "Hero Name", like Stan Lee, what they really mean is "14-card deck". So I would play it that the entire 14-card deck that contains Storm and Black Panther all have the same "Hero Name" even though the Hero Name slots on some of those cards say different things.

If I were playing a game with Storm & Black Panther, and with Storm by herself and Black Panther by himself, and if someone rescued Stan Lee, I would make them specify either, "Storm & Black Panther", "Storm", or "Black Panther". If they said "Storm" and a Storm & Black Panther card came up, I wouldn't give it to them.

Maybe I'm being too strict. But it makes the most sense to me.

I agree with you. Wolverine (X-Men) and Wolverine (X-Force) should be treated as separate heroes for the purposes of cards like Stan Lee. And "Storm & Black Panther" is one hero name for the purposes of their 14-card deck.

Once you start down the path of subjectively mixing and matching rules, everything because far more complex, and needlessly so.
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Justin H

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randomlife wrote:
I've always felt that for cards that refer to "Hero Name", like Stan Lee, what they really mean is "14-card deck". So I would play it that the entire 14-card deck that contains Storm and Black Panther all have the same "Hero Name" even though the Hero Name slots on some of those cards say different things.

If I were playing a game with Storm & Black Panther, and with Storm by herself and Black Panther by himself, and if someone rescued Stan Lee, I would make them specify either, "Storm & Black Panther", "Storm", or "Black Panther". If they said "Storm" and a Storm & Black Panther card came up, I wouldn't give it to them.

Maybe I'm being too strict. But it makes the most sense to me.


I would not say that you are being too strict, but I would say that you are not interpreting the rules right, IMO. The Civil War rules sheet says thus about divided cards:

"While a Divided Card is in your hand or the HQ, it counts as all its Hero Classes, Teams and Hero Names. But once you play it, the card only counts as the side you chose."

This would mean that it counts as both sides, but not to combine the hero names. I would translate this as a Storm/Black Panther card being both a Storm card and a Black Panther card, not StormBlackPanther.

I don't know how this would translate into computer programming logic, maybe think of the card as A or B.

XeyneGaming wrote:
I agree with you. Wolverine (X-Men) and Wolverine (X-Force) should be treated as separate heroes for the purposes of cards like Stan Lee. And "Storm & Black Panther" is one hero name for the purposes of their 14-card deck.

Once you start down the path of subjectively mixing and matching rules, everything because far more complex, and needlessly so.


I would also have to disagree with this, as it's not subjective, but actually more literal. Try this exercise, take one of those cards, and cover up one side, does it now say "Storm" or "Black Panther"? Or does it say Storm and Black Panther. In addition, the Wovlerine cards are both called Wolverine. They have different teams, and we use that to separate them while setting up a game, but their exact name are both Wolverine. It's up to the player to infer that it's Wolverine(Core) or Wolverine(X-Force). I would rule it the same if you are playing with Daredevil and Daredevil(Danny Rand) as they both literally and exactly state the hero name to be Daredevil.

Of course, this is all my opinion on the matter, and only UD knows for sure.
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Justin H

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LocutusZero wrote:
I'm right there with you about trying to apply programming logic to games, but there are SO MANY cases in Legendary where you have to meet the game half way, or even decide which of 2 or 3 similar interpretations you want to go with.

I, of course, see Captain America and Captain America (Falcon) as two different hero names, for the purpose of the Stan Lee card. But I see the two Wolverines as having the same hero name. It's just a benefit of playing with those cards. If I played with Storm's old card set as well as Storm and Black Panther's set, saying "Storm" would work for both sets. For the rare to qualify, I really have to just fudge that rule, but I don't want a single card in the deck to be it's own hero name. It's the same reason I'd count the upcoming Deadpool's rare as saying "Deadpool" even though it says "Me", IIRC.


I totally agree with your interpretation, including the "fudging" part. In regards to a lot of these rules questions, sometimes you just need to agree what works for your group (or just you if you're solo). Sometimes there are clear answers, and sometimes their aren't, but if you let yourself get too bogged down in the game, it stops being fun.

We played a game the other night with the Spider Queen mastermind doing the Killbots scheme. When bystanders were put into the escape pile directly from the deck, were they Killbots, were they Bystanders? Were they both? We came to a consensus, and played the game, but could have easily spent the rest of the night quibbling about the rules.
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jhochges wrote:
I would not say that you are being too strict, but I would say that you are not interpreting the rules right, IMO. The Civil War rules sheet says thus about divided cards:

"While a Divided Card is in your hand or the HQ, it counts as all its Hero Classes, Teams and Hero Names. But once you play it, the card only counts as the side you chose."

This would mean that it counts as both sides, but not to combine the hero names. I would translate this as a Storm/Black Panther card being both a Storm card and a Black Panther card, not StormBlackPanther.

I don't know how this would translate into computer programming logic, maybe think of the card as A or B.


As noted above, however, neither the Storm/Black Panther nor the Cloak/Dagger deck has Divided cards as rares, and this means that they're written as one "and" the other and not "either" one "or" the other.
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Dan Harrow
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jhochges wrote:
I would also have to disagree with this, as it's not subjective, but actually more literal. Try this exercise, take one of those cards, and cover up one side, does it now say "Storm" or "Black Panther"? Or does it say Storm and Black Panther. In addition, the Wovlerine cards are both called Wolverine. They have different teams, and we use that to separate them while setting up a game, but their exact name are both Wolverine. It's up to the player to infer that it's Wolverine(Core) or Wolverine(X-Force). I would rule it the same if you are playing with Daredevil and Daredevil(Danny Rand) as they both literally and exactly state the hero name to be Daredevil.

Of course, this is all my opinion on the matter, and only UD knows for sure.


Sure, if you the game is too difficult for you, by all means make it easier.
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Davy Ashleydale
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Here's a further wrinkle. The actual wording of the Stan Lee bystander card is:

"When you rescue this Bystander, say a Hero name. Then reveal the top 3 cards of your deck. Put one of your cards with that exact Hero name into your hand. Put the rest back in any order." (Emphasis mine.)

Why include the word "exact"? Why not just say "with that Hero name"? Card real estate is limited, so I would think that if they thought the word "exact" was not needed, they would have left it off.

Do you think the creator of the Stan Lee card was trying to prevent someone from saying "Storm" and picking up a "Storm & Black Panther" card, because that's not exactly the same? Why else would they use the word "exact"? In case someone says "Arachnid-Man" and tries to pick up a "Spider-Man" card?
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Most likely, the writer of that card was trying to avoid people saying "Spider-Man" and drawing "Symbiote Spider-Man" and "Spider-Woman" and "Moon Knight."
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Justin H

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XeyneGaming wrote:
jhochges wrote:
I would also have to disagree with this, as it's not subjective, but actually more literal. Try this exercise, take one of those cards, and cover up one side, does it now say "Storm" or "Black Panther"? Or does it say Storm and Black Panther. In addition, the Wovlerine cards are both called Wolverine. They have different teams, and we use that to separate them while setting up a game, but their exact name are both Wolverine. It's up to the player to infer that it's Wolverine(Core) or Wolverine(X-Force). I would rule it the same if you are playing with Daredevil and Daredevil(Danny Rand) as they both literally and exactly state the hero name to be Daredevil.

Of course, this is all my opinion on the matter, and only UD knows for sure.


Sure, if you the game is too difficult for you, by all means make it easier.


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Justin H

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TheUbiquitous wrote:
Most likely, the writer of that card was trying to avoid people saying "Spider-Man" and drawing "Symbiote Spider-Man" and "Spider-Woman" and "Moon Knight."


Agreed. maybe they should have given X-Force Wolverine some sort of modifier to his name to differentiate him. As it is it should work on either one if you say wolverine.

The "exact" may be to differentiate in use when compared to cross-dimensional rampage, which picks up on any variation of that character.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the Stan Lee bystander from the 3D set predate cross-dimensional rampage?

Anyway, for my money, saying "Wolverine" for Stan Lee should apply to both the Wolverine deck and the Wolverine deck. It should be interpreted as a feature, not a bug, IMO.
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Justin H

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It does, I was just using that as an example that is not particular when it comes the the exact name.
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Davy Ashleydale
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Yeah, maybe the best interpretation is that the player should say a Hero name like "Wolverine" or "Storm" and if one of the top 3 cards contains that exact Hero name, it qualifies.

So if you say "Storm" and one of the cards has the Hero name "Storm & Black Panther", it qualifies. Or if you say "Wolverine", either type of Wolverine card qualifies, but "Old Man Logan" wouldn't.

I guess that's the most generous interpretation. Although, I guess I still wouldn't allow someone to draw the "Me" Deadpool card if they said "Deadpool".
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Gavin Jones
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I don't have the card in front of me so don't know the exact wording but Patriot has a card that says something about revealing 3 hero names from the top 3 cards of your deck which I took to include divided cards as 2 names otherwise that card would be a bit weak, especially in a solo game where you only have 3 hero decks.

I would, however say that for the rare you would need to say Storm & Black Panther but for any of their divided cards either would be fine.
 
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