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Simon Barnes
United Kingdom
Leigh
Lancs
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Negotiations action card reads:

Negotiations wrote:
Pay 1 culture token to play
Free action at the end of your turn.

Choose a player. That player may not attack you during his next turn.

whilst the Leadership card says:

Leadership wrote:
Pay 1 culture token to play
Gain an extra action this turn.


Am I reading too much into the difference in wording, and the emphasis on the negotiations card. What does Free action mean compared to "Gain an extra action"? And why is "at the end of your turn" italicised?
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Moe45673
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Toronto
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Technically, the Leadership extra action can happen anywhere during your turn whereas Negotiations happens at the end of your turn. In practice, I can't think of a difference off the top of my head.

See my post below
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Jonathan Challis
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Inkpen
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Negotiations is a free action - it doesn't count as one of your 3, and it stops someone attacking you. It COSTS a free action, not grants one...

Leadership gives you a 4th action, and doesn't affect others attacking you.

There is no comparison, these are two completely different cards.
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Garth Tams
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Edmonton
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Kelanen wrote:
Negotiations is a free action - it doesn't count as one of your 3, and it stops someone attacking you. It COSTS a free action, not grants one...

Leadership gives you a 4th action, and doesn't affect others attacking you.

There is no comparison, these are two completely different cards.


This is exactly it.
 
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Moe45673
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Oh whoops, I completely misread that. Been awhile since I've played but Jonathan is absolutely right (I've always played that card correctly, FYI).

Negotiations is a free action and is a specific type of action. Leadership is an extra action and that action can be any action you please.

In other words:
Leadership - Take 4 actions
Negotiations - Take 4 actions but the last action is that a player of your choosing cannot attack you on their next turn.
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Simon Barnes
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Leigh
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Ok thanks. So describing it as a free action seems spurious, and I still don't understand the emphasis on the negotiations card. Why is it at the end of your turn? Like somehow playing the card and saying to an opponent "you won't be attacking me on your next go" somehow needs to wait until the end of your turn?

Put it this way. Remove that whole line:

"Free action at the end of your turn." so the card now reads:

Quote:
Pay 1 culture token to play

Choose a player. That player may not attack you during his next turn


Does anything change gameplay wise?
 
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Nick Clinite
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I think the intent is that an Action Card is either played as a part of another action, is played as an action, or is played as a free action (plenty of other action cards are labeled as free actions).

As far as why it is necessary to be played at the end of the round, I am guessing it's a thematic reason: if you play Negotiation first, and then attack them, it would look like the negotiation is off. So playing it at the end of your turn assures that you've already completed any attacks on them.
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Simon Barnes
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islan wrote:
I think the intent is that an Action Card is either played as a part of another action, is played as an action, or is played as a free action (plenty of other action cards are labeled as free actions).


Understood, so which of those three is leadership then? Nah forget it, it doesn't matter. However if leadership had said:

Quote:
Pay 1 culture token to play as a Free action.
Gain an extra action this turn.


Then that would be consistent and I wouldn't have needed to ask. I get what you mean tho'. I think.


islan wrote:
As far as why it is necessary to be played at the end of the round, I am guessing it's a thematic reason: if you play Negotiation first, and then attack them, it would look like the negotiation is off. So playing it at the end of your turn assures that you've already completed any attacks on them.


I'm sold on that one. Thanks.
 
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Nick Clinite
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simon_j_barnes wrote:
islan wrote:
I think the intent is that an Action Card is either played as a part of another action, is played as an action, or is played as a free action (plenty of other action cards are labeled as free actions).


Understood, so which of those three is leadership then? Nah forget it, it doesn't matter. However if leadership had said:

Quote:
Pay 1 culture token to play as a Free action.
Gain an extra action this turn.


Then that would be consistent and I wouldn't have needed to ask. I get what you mean tho'. I think.


Possibly. Leadership looks like the odd-one-out, probably because it just gives a blank extra action (you're not actually doing anything, even as a free action, but you will be allowed to do something else as an extra action). I get the feeling that the free action keyword is more for the designer's sake than the players.
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George
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Even though almost all Action cards are played on your own turn, the rules don't state they have to be. The timing is listed on the card.

- Free Action: Means play on your turn but it doesn't cost an action.
- AAA, or "As an Action": Means play on your turn as one of your 3 actions.
- Or you'll get some other trigger in bold, which could modify a standard action like Collect, or be another trigger like winning a battle even on someone else's turn.


So yeah, Free Action on Negotiations means you have to play it on your turn... and not in the middle of someone else's turn as they march toward you.


Leadership doesn't really need a timer in bold, because getting an extra action only makes sense on your turn. I think use a free action to get an extra action would be slightly confusing wording, but I see your point.
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Simon Barnes
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Leigh
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Thanks for the replies, they make it make sense to me now. This means I can (hopefully) explain it better when teaching it too.

For the first few plays I think I'm going to pass around 3 of the player guides to each player as they take their turn so that each action they use, they "play" one of these guides. I know there will be questions in the middle of a turn which will sidetrack us for a few minutes and so this will help keep track of how many actions they've used.

I may use a dice to mark any city that has been activated too as a reminder to adjust mood if it is activated again in the turn.
 
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Nick Clinite
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It's really not as complicated of a game as you make it sound. The cards are pretty self-explanatory to me, you just gotta remember that the bold part at the top is the cost/trigger and not a part of the actual effect. Keeping track of city activation is pretty easy since you only have 3 actions, the hardest part is just remembering what actions require the city activation when first starting; I'd recommend always stating such an action as "I activate this city to...".
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Simon Barnes
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I didn't think I made it sound complicated. However when teaching new players they are going to ask things early on, then we get sidetracked, a few minutes later I'm going to ask "so how many actions do you have left, is it one or two?". The idea with the player aid cards will make it easier for me to teach, it's one less thing for me to keep track of.

Another example I can forsee is something like this: Someone activates a city as first action, does something else as action two, asks a question, we're sidetracked, they then pause for thinking then activate city for action 3 at which point I'm hoping I remember to remind them they have already activated that city. This might cause them to decide they don't want to activate it after all and then they go back to thinking. With the dice this will hopefully provide a visual reminder as to what they have activated so I don't have to remind them.

I've found from experience the smoother those first few turns go in a new game the better.

I've got a handle on the cards now thanks, the answer to the question in the op: "Am I reading too much into the difference in wording" was yes. If that's what you meant by making it sound complicated then I'm guilty as charged.
 
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MLeis
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When I begin a turn, I take three advance cubes in my hand. If I activate a city, I put one next to the city, if I get an advance I place it where it goes, and if I do something else, I just lay it aside. I've found that once one does this habitually, it makes tracking actions and activations really easy.
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Simon Barnes
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Leigh
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Thanks for the tip, I think I'll adopt your idea instead of mine.
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Ilias Sellountos
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Henrico
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Fielmann wrote:
When I begin a turn, I take three advance cubes in my hand. If I activate a city, I put one next to the city, if I get an advance I place it where it goes, and if I do something else, I just lay it aside. I've found that once one does this habitually, it makes tracking actions and activations really easy.

That's what we do as well.
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