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The Banner Saga: Warbands» Forums » Rules

Subject: Warleaders, Upgrades, and Activation rss

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Tiogshi Laj
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I cannot for the life of me find, in the manual, what Warleaders are, where to look for them, or what to do with them. It's mentioned on the Warmaster board, and I think it's that three-white-silhouettes-on-red-background icon shown on his board and the Keeper Of Names' and the top-left of Skirmish cards, but what does it MEAN?


Second, I did an Internal Event which said as the effect "The Quartermaster, Thane, and Warmaster may Upgrade. The Keeper of Names is Injured." I've seen "may upgrade" mentioned several times, but I cannot find HOW I upgrade, what upgrading is, nothing. Anyone have some clarification for me?


Last of all... in skirmishes, when we "Activate" an enemy, does EVERY enemy of each type activate, or just ONE of each type (whichever of that group has the most advantageous move to make vs. the Bannermen), or ALL of ONE type, or what? My wife and I have tried the Bandit Ambush Skirmish several times using the EVERY of EACH rule, and every time, no matter what our strategy, it's a total party kill before the bannermen get a second turn unless we all start with Gold rank AND spend our first turn Defend'ing up in the corner.
 
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Brian Shotton
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Warleaders are a type of follower. Under the name of each follower is the classification. You'll find Warleader there. You'll also find it in the components list under "8 Follower Cards"

You'll find information on upgrading your bannerman on page 11, under the header "Upgrading Your Bannerman". Also note the banner man card breakdown helps identify what constitutes an upgrade on the bannerman cards.

You find information on combat and activation on page 14 under "Enemy Activation". To answer your question directly, all of that type activate before moving to the next type. The order of activation is based off the combat card "top to bottom". So using the Bandit Ambush skirmish card, all the Backbiters will activate, then the Bowmasters, then the Thrashers.

The target of each attack is based off the priorities, also on page 14 (Bannerman, renown, etc.)
 
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Brian Shotton
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The combat can be VERY brutal. There is no luck. Each combat has a "best solution".

Here are some hints:

1. Often times it is a good idea to not attack the first round. Move (sometimes backwards) to position yourself to have the best second round you can.

2. Use willpower: it comes back between combat.

3. Buy followers and keep them adjacent to their bannerman. Use renown to have them take damage for you. Let them die. That is their job.

4. Team up on enemies. Don't separate and try to win combat with one-on-one fighting.

5. Use the base size to block enemies out. Use your range effectively.
 
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Todd V
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Edit: looks like this was answered above, thanks for the clarifications.

I got this same event on my first practice game and was also confused, but did eventually figure it out (I think).

Warleaders are a type of follower. You'll see the follower type below their name on the follower card. Other follower classes such as Eagle Eye, Provoker, and Hunter are also mentioned on the player boards, but are not explained in the rulebook.

I also had to search the rulebook to see what "upgrade" meant, and this is explained (though not very clearly) on pgs 11 and 12 in the "bannerman and followers" section. From what I can tell, you can upgrade your bannerman to get an extra willpower token, and with the next upgrade you can promote them to Gold banner rank.

The information about upgrading on the Thane player board seems to conflict with what is in the rulebook, the rulebook says under "Upgrading your bannerman":
Quote:
Upgrades are purchased in the following order:
1. Wilpower 2. Gold ability


While the Thane player board says in the Deeds of Valor section:
Quote:
Valor Completion:
Immediately upgrade bannerman. This must be done in the following order:
First: (willpower symbol)
Second: (silver banner rank symbol)
Third: (gold banner rank symbol)


My assumption was the Bannerman card begins the game at silver rank, since the "Bannerman Card Breakdown" had #3 Banner Rank pointing to the upper right background of the card which is clearly silver (compared to the follower cards where are bronze).

In general the rulebook is poorly organized and confusing, frequently referring to concepts that aren't explained until several pages later, only explained on the player boards, or not explained anywhere at all. It's also unhelpful to put the player board explanations and setup instructions ONLY on the back side of the same player board, and not in the rulebook, so you have to take all the tokens off and flip it back and forth if you have questions.
 
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Brian Shotton
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I believe Kenny said something about the Thane being wrong. It is in the FAQ. I'll try to pass questions from BGG to Kenny and back again. Kenny wrote this rule book completely. I want to make sure he answers any questions. I don't want to muddy the waters with information that is obsolete.

I know the rule book download on our website has the backs of the roles so you can print them out. It was put up today.

http://megacongames.com/download/banner-saga-warbands-rulebo...

I can film us fighting the Bandit Skirmish if you'd like. Tell us how many followers and willpower you had and we'll attempt it. I can tell you right now, if we have two group willpower and two followers we'll win with acceptable loses.

Let me know.
 
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Tiogshi Laj
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Due to having no understanding how upgrading should work... we had 2 Group willpower via Warmaster Renown spend, and no upgrades on any of the four bannermen. The Keeper of Names had only one chance to purchase Followers in the starting city of mission #1; we chose an archer w/Eagle Eye. No other opportunities to recruit came up.


That encounter was immediately after an External Event reduced our Morale by 2 from its starting value... which due to poor understanding of the Warmaster board, we at one point thought that meant we had a total (whatever the white-silhouettes-on-red-background icon is supposed to be) of 3, thus in the 0-4 Banner Rank area, and that our Bannermen should therefore be bronze rank. Even after we figured out we should be silver, I still have no idea Banner Rank is supposed to be used for.
 
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Brian Shotton
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I am trying to get the video approved. In the meantime, here is a link to the Bandit Ambush video. I hope it helps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=496knUoo33I&feature=youtu.be
 
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