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Terraforming Mars» Forums » General

Subject: Does anyone sleeve the cards? rss

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tibbles von tibbleton
United States
Oregon
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Given I some times play games at a pub, I thought I'd sleeve the cards. But having done so, that is a really unwieldy sized deck, especially with sleeve slickness. Does anyone else sleeve and what do you use to hold the draw deck? Right now I'm thinking I'll buy 2 of those deck carriers and put half in each, but those are hard to pull cards out of while playing, so was wondering if there's something better.
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Bart Rachemoss
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Silver City
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I'm planning to sleeve the cards. If a stack of sleeved cards is too unwieldy then I just split it into two or more smaller stacks. Easy.
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tibbles von tibbleton
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It's more like 3-4 stacks in this case, but yeah. I just was trying to think of something better. Preferably something that'd double as both box storage and deck holding while playing.
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Örjan Almén
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I sleeved it before first use. It gets a high stack of cards when they are sleeved (it's high even without sleeves) but if it's a little bit wobbly with a high stack, I just put the cards into two piles. I've thought about getting something to place them in on the table, but I haven't found anything that would fit yet.
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Maciej Matejko
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I sleeved cards right after taking them out of the box. They are waaay too thin to stay unprotected in the players hands.
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Paul Newsham
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Halifax
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http://e-raptor.pl/en_US/p/e-Raptor-Card-Holder-2S-Solid/839
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Frank Hamrick
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Rocky Mount
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Tarnop wrote:


This fits Terraforming Mars sized cards, I assume?
 
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Jerome Nowak

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Looks like standard sized cards. Also...if you click the link, all the information you need is there. No need to ask when the info is sitting in your hands.
 
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Nate F
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Cross Plains
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I sleeved my cards immediately. Then I built a card tower from Lego to hold a full stack and discards on the other side. Because, yeah, that's a lot of slippery cards.
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Marius Friedrichs
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Frank Hamrick wrote:
Tarnop wrote:


This fits Terraforming Mars sized cards, I assume?

No, it doesn't. This card holder is for american mini or european mini sized cards. The only other one I can find should be for american/european standard cards (2L version), but it seems like there is none for standard sized cards.
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Steve Marano
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Nutley
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So it's not exactly elegant, but it gets the job done.
Yeah, that's a Priority Mail box (medium flat rate, 13-5/8" x 11-7/8" x 3-3/8"). It's self-sealing, so you don't even have to use glue.
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Nate F
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smarano wrote:
So it's not exactly elegant, but it gets the job done.


Nice! I would recommend sticking some sort of little ridge towards the front on the "floor" so the card stack is raised a bit off the cardboard. It'll make the card stack easier to lift out.
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Steve Marano
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Excellent idea. Thanks!
And readily accomplished...
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Paul Newsham
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Apologies, I linked the one for mini cards by mistake
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Roland Deschain
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I rarely sleeve with Dragon Shield because they are so expensive but this game got the royal treatment. They were sleeved with Dragon Shield Gold and Black Sleeves. Very sharp even if it was 2 boxes worth.
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Tracy Baker
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I learned a long time ago from playing Warfighter that games using a huge central deck of cards that often need to be shuffled and handled are best sleeved immediately.

I put these in Clear KMC Hyper Mattes. I probably would have used cheaper clear Ultra Pro Deck Protectors if I hadn't just run out of them. KMCs are my favorites, though, and they work great for this game. The backs have a bit of texture to them (so they aren't completely clear), and it's just enough to let the cards stack nicely without slipping and provide some grip while handling them. These are nice, thick sleeves that are also perfect for squeeze-shuffling as they have no burrs on the edges and stand up to quite a bit of abuse.

The problem with premium sleeves like Hyper Mattes is that they are really thick, so when you're dealing with a 200+ card deck like this one standard card holders don't work that well. My solution is one of these:



Everything fits snugly in the base or a bit loosely in the lid, it's easy to draw from and can be passed around the table without fearing that cards will spill out, and you can easily put a divider in there to put discards behind.
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Tom Van den Brandt
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I'm using a dragon shield 4 compartment card box. I put it straight up on it's side and take out the two removable dividers. It's like having two draft piles (one above the other). Not expensive either...

 
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Brent Brown
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This is what the top card of my pack looked like straight out of the wrap. I don't see them holding up very well in actual play. I sleeved them immediately.

 
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Marius Friedrichs
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I actually sleeve almost all of my more expensive games' cards. So much, that I buy my sleeves in display boxes with 500 sleeves most of the time.

Tarnop wrote:
Apologies, I linked the one for mini cards by mistake

For what it's worth: It made me aware of those card holders and I ordered one for my Zombicide BP decks.

gertbert wrote:
I learned a long time ago from playing Warfighter that games using a huge central deck of cards that often need to be shuffled and handled are best sleeved immediately.

I put these in Clear KMC Hyper Mattes. I probably would have used cheaper clear Ultra Pro Deck Protectors if I hadn't just run out of them. KMCs are my favorites, though, and they work great for this game. The backs have a bit of texture to them (so they aren't completely clear), and it's just enough to let the cards stack nicely without slipping and provide some grip while handling them. These are nice, thick sleeves that are also perfect for squeeze-shuffling as they have no burrs on the edges and stand up to quite a bit of abuse.

The problem with premium sleeves like Hyper Mattes is that they are really thick, so when you're dealing with a 200+ card deck like this one standard card holders don't work that well. My solution is one of these:



Everything fits snugly in the base or a bit loosely in the lid, it's easy to draw from and can be passed around the table without fearing that cards will spill out, and you can easily put a divider in there to put discards behind.

Thanks for the heads up. I just ordered one of those from Amazon to give it a try.
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Jacob Fryxelius
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elitusprime wrote:
This is what the top card of my pack looked like straight out of the wrap. I don't see them holding up very well in actual play. I sleeved them immediately.


Yes, this is a known issue (that most people don't notice) and it is because the stack of card is so thick that the machine handling them unexpectedly squeezed them. Only the top card of each stack is affected, and one of those is the blank card.
This issue will be corrected in the next printrun, but is not due to poor quality of the cards. The cards are thin but of high quality.
(Imagine how big the deck would be with thicker cards!! )
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Brent Brown
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Fryxen wrote:
Yes, this is a known issue (that most people don't notice) and it is because the stack of card is so thick that the machine handling them unexpectedly squeezed them. Only the top card of each stack is affected, and one of those is the blank card.
This issue will be corrected in the next printrun, but is not due to poor quality of the cards. The cards are thin but of high quality.
(Imagine how big the deck would be with thicker cards!! )


Ahh... It is really good to hear that it should be a one time issue. Thanks for the info!
 
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Jeff Connell
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I generally don't sleeve any of my games but this one will get the treatment. These are the worst quality cards in a game that I've seen in a long, long time.
 
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Frank Jaeger
Germany
Burtenbach
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Seriously - again? Card quality is the same as in literally thousands of other games from hundreds of publishers. This is black core 300g playing card paper which means: TCG quality paper consisting of two layers of paper glued together over a black middle sheet.
Advantages:
- you cannot look through even if you hold it up to a light source.
- you can bend it and it will not break; actually, you can bend it back and it will be flat again.
- it is perfect for shuffling.
- the cards are not punched but cut like Poker cards so that the edges on front and back are perfectly identical.

I am sorry that you feel the cards are not good, but I can assure you that we used the best material and the very process of production that we always use in millions and millions of decks every year and also for Stronghold games in many, many games: Core Worlds, Diamonds, Bear Valley, Dark Moon and many others.

Frank.
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Jonathan Franklin
United States
Seattle
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Frank,

Core Worlds and Diamonds are excellent examples, as they are also black edged cards. I am happy with my Terraforming Mars as is, but if people find photos of wear on Core Worlds cards, that means they played it an absolute ton.

My bet is that people are instinctively reacting to the lack of a linen finish, not the cardstock itself.
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Frank Jaeger
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Hi Jonathan,
yes, you may be right. I have not though of that, thanks for pointing it out. I am so used to linen stock paper that I failed to notice that we did not use it for Terraforming Mars.

The difference in those two card stocks is only the structure. They are basically the same paper. It is the paper used for Magic: The Gathering as well, which also uses flat card stock.

Generally, black border are great to look at but very sensitive to damage. It is just because the tiny fibers make for an uneven edge, too small to be visible to the eye, but big enough to have en effect if played a lot. Also the cutting is more difficult and requires very sharp steel knives. But I have a deck of cards here from TM and thought those were quite good. That is why I am so puzzled that it is received as bad. Maybe Jeff Connell does have a bad deck, but I have not encountered one before and the card stock is certainly the same. If something else happened, I cannot say. But if there is a complaint that someones feels requires addressing, please contact me.
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