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Brass: Lancashire» Forums » Rules

Subject: Building over an Industry counter rss

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Tibor Csécsei
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If I would like to build over an industry counter, does it count as an action, should I play a card for it?
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David B
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yes

If you build over your own industry, you still must play the required card AND it must be at least one level higher.

If you are building over your opponent's industry, it can only be iron works or coal (you cannot build over opponent's cotton or ports) AND you must play the required card AND it must be at least one level higher AND that resource that you are building must be depleted on the board and the demand track (you cannot overbuild on an opponent's iron works, for instance, if there is still iron on the board or on the demand track).

If overbuilding was not an action and did not require a card, Brass would be a broken, chaotic, free for all. In other words, an Ameritrash game.
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Alex Drazen
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Quote:
you cannot overbuild on an opponent's iron works, for instance, if there is still iron on the board or on the demand track).


If there's iron on the board, the demand track is necessarily full, as iron 'teleports' and you are required to use (legal) cubes on the board before using the demand track. Not necessarily true for coal, obviously.

Quote:
should I play a card for it?


Every action you take in Brass always requires you to play a card: Build Industry (includes overbuilds), Take Loan, Develop (one card to develop one or two tiles for that action), Sell Cotton (one card to sell as much cotton as you want for that action), Build Link (one card to build either one canal link or two rail links for that action, depending on the era), and even Pass each require one card apiece.

The exception is the double-action build, which allows you to play two cards as a "wild card" to make any legal build on the entire board, but it counts as both your actions for the turn (and cannot be performed in Canal Era turn 1).

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David B
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alexdrazen wrote:
Quote:
you cannot overbuild on an opponent's iron works, for instance, if there is still iron on the board or on the demand track).


If there's iron on the board, the demand track is necessarily full, as iron 'teleports' and you are required to use (legal) cubes on the board before using the demand track. Not necessarily true for coal, obviously.



Which does not change my response to the question one iota.


alexdrazen wrote:
The exception is the double-action build, which allows you to play two cards as a "wild card" to make any legal build on the entire board, but it counts as both your actions for the turn (and cannot be performed in Canal Era 1).


Incorrect. Combining actions as a wild can be performed in either era.
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Alex Drazen
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pfctsqr wrote:
alexdrazen wrote:
Quote:
you cannot overbuild on an opponent's iron works, for instance, if there is still iron on the board or on the demand track).


If there's iron on the board, the demand track is necessarily full, as iron 'teleports' and you are required to use (legal) cubes on the board before using the demand track. Not necessarily true for coal, obviously.



Which does not change my response to the question one iota.


alexdrazen wrote:
The exception is the double-action build, which allows you to play two cards as a "wild card" to make any legal build on the entire board, but it counts as both your actions for the turn (and cannot be performed in Canal Era 1).


Incorrect. Combining actions as a wild can be performed in either era.


On Canal Era turn 1, you only have one action. You cannot play two cards with it, as the draw deck size is pre-determined, and this would leave it one card short.

You can use a single industry card as a wild card to build that industry in a legal space provided that you have no presence on the board (even in the Rail era, though if this happens you're almost certainly losing badly). But that isn't the double action build.

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Chris
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Birmingham
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alexdrazen wrote:
On Canal Era turn 1, you only have one action. You cannot play two cards with it, as the draw deck size is pre-determined, and this would leave it one card short.

You can use a single industry card as a wild card to build that industry in a legal space provided that you have no presence on the board (even in the Rail era, though if this happens you're almost certainly losing badly). But that isn't the double action build.



I think that's kinda below the level of needing to clarify. *Of course* you can't do two actions when you only have one action, hence the confusion.

Would anyone ever honestly *want* to do a double build action early on anyway? Generally you've got to be in a real tight spot to do a double build, which you would never be early on.
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David B
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alexdrazen wrote:


On Canal Era turn 1, you only have one action. You cannot play two cards with it, as the draw deck size is pre-determined, and this would leave it one card short.

You can use a single industry card as a wild card to build that industry in a legal space provided that you have no presence on the board (even in the Rail era, though if this happens you're almost certainly losing badly). But that isn't the double action build.



When you said canal era 1, I did not realize you meant the first turn of the game where you indeed only have one action. I thought you were just clarifying that the canal era is era 1. When you described it as canal era TURN 1, it is more clear.

But as Chris said, it is rare that in the Canal era you would ever want to do a single action by combining the two as you should not be in that tight a spot. Sacrificing an action is usually at a significant price.
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Alex Drazen
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Quote:
But as Chris said, it is rare that in the Canal era you would ever want to do a single action by combining the two as you should not be in that tight a spot. Sacrificing an action is usually at a significant price.


It's rare, but it can happen. For example, getting out an L4 iron works in canal is possibly worth the double-action build (it's 18 unstoppable points, 9 in each era, essentially equivalent to a single L3 cotton).

I've used a double-action build on a low-level cotton mill to swipe all the ports so people could not ship their L3's.

If you don't have the money and would have to do a canal to build a link, and then use an industry card to build in the connected space, a double action build saves 3 pounds (maybe you don't have it, or want a different turn order).

But in general, yes, most double action builds will happen in the Rail era.
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