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Orléans» Forums » General

Subject: Need for player screens? rss

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Alexandre Santos
Belgium
Brussels
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I played Orléans for the first time the other day, and while I enjoyed the game and look forward for more plays, there is something that bugged me: during the planning phase one can very easily watch what actions each player is programming, which can lead to endless loops of "if you do this, I do that".

So I spent the whole game trying not to watch the other player's board, but it's a pain.

Does anyone feel this problem, and felt the need for player screens like for Roll for the Galaxy? How do you deal with this problem?
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Aernout Casier
Netherlands
Nijmegen
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For us it's etiquette. We simply don't look. You know pretty much what people will be doing when you see what they draw from the bag anyway.

 
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Philippe LALANNE
France
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On our side, I have made 4 player screens ....Interaction is too strong sometimes.
 
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Clement Tey
Singapore
Singapore
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I think the rules cover this. You have to lock in your actions in turn order if there's any disagreement.
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Alexandre Santos
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AernoutMJC wrote:
For us it's etiquette. We simply don't look.


Sure, but sometimes I can't avoid noticing what other people have programmed simply by accident, I have to consciously avoid looking in other player's direction.
 
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Alexandre Santos
Belgium
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phil31 wrote:
On our side, I have made 4 player screens ....Interaction is too strong sometimes.


I didn't find any screens in the files section... If you designed some, could you upload them?
 
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Alexandre Santos
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princemousey wrote:
I think the rules cover this. You have to lock in your actions in turn order if there's any disagreement.


True, but then the last player can take his time watching all the players boards. Unpleasant, but legal.
 
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Tim Mangan
United States
Freeport
Illinois
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I've played the game several times and never saw a need for player screens. The rules cover this nicely, that any player may ask the player to their left to "lock in" their board. If there were screens, there would be a higher risk that the players who are lower in the turn order get blocked to the point of not being able to play their tokens I see the current setup as a polite and friendly way to play - very sportsman like.

As it is, there is always some point jn the game where someone will comment, "Shoot. I didn't see you were going to take the last xxxx. I missed that."

I will disclose that I thoroughly enjoy the gamen and consider it one of my favorites.
 
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Baker Odom
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Bluffton
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AlexFS wrote:
princemousey wrote:
I think the rules cover this. You have to lock in your actions in turn order if there's any disagreement.


True, but then the last player can take his time watching all the players boards. Unpleasant, but legal.


Why is it unpleasant? The last player is at a disadvantage by being last so he is allowed to see what everyone else is doing in order to make sure he doesn't waste he actions.

It's an intentional design choice by the designer.
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Baker Odom
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Bluffton
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AernoutMJC wrote:
For us it's etiquette. We simply don't look. You know pretty much what people will be doing when you see what they draw from the bag anyway.



I don't see how etiquette comes into play. Per the rules you are clearly allowed to watch what choices other people make particularly if you are later in the turn order than they are.
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Alexandre Santos
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tmangan2 wrote:
I've played the game several times and never saw a need for player screens. The rules cover this nicely, that any player may ask the player to their left to "lock in" their board. If there were screens, there would be a higher risk that the players who are lower in the turn order get blocked to the point of not being able to play their tokens I see the current setup as a polite and friendly way to play - very sportsman like.

As it is, there is always some point jn the game where someone will comment, "Shoot. I didn't see you were going to take the last xxxx. I missed that." [...]


thebaker1983 wrote:
AlexFS wrote:
princemousey wrote:
I think the rules cover this. You have to lock in your actions in turn order if there's any disagreement.


True, but then the last player can take his time watching all the players boards. Unpleasant, but legal.


Why is it unpleasant? The last player is at a disadvantage by being last so he is allowed to see what everyone else is doing in order to make sure he doesn't waste he actions.

It's an intentional design choice by the designer.


Both valid points. I think I approached the game more from the "RollFTG" approach, which is not valid here.

I will try another play with the "totally read the other player boards" approach, and see how does it flow (wonder if it doesn't slow the game, I like the simultaneous planning phase idea)
 
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Alexandre Santos
Belgium
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And thanks for all the answers, that was helpful thumbsup
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Carl Bussema
United States
Lansing
Michigan
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I've played about 6 times, which I know isn't a ton, but generally this is what I see:
* Everyone plans simulatenously
* Players are free to look around. I sometimes see whether someone is even capable of interfering (e.g., wagon + guild hall) when I'm thinking about what I want to do
* We require a formal "lock" declaration from first player, then proceeding clockwise
* 90%+ of the time, players aren't changing based on what previous players are doing, but that other 10% it's crucial... oh, you've planned for town hall with a farmer, and there's only 1 farmer spot left... maybe I shouldn't do that... or if I'm fighting with you for a guild hall position, maybe I will, and then force you to choose which one you want. I'd certainly hate for a player to lock in a 3-worker action that they're not going to be able to execute (ever), like if the last Scholar is going to be taken before their turn... that's 3 later draws you'd have to forfeit to recover those workers, a pretty nasty penalty.

With 4 experienced players, we've even started taking actions that don't interfere simultaneously. The first few rounds this generally doesn't work because everyone's planning village to get those place tiles, but after a while, especially once players have spread out from Orleans, it's fairly easy to see that there's no real conflicts, or maybe after start player takes a particular action, the rest of his actions don't conflict and he can just take them all while the others continue to go. I don't recommend this except with very experienced players, but it can really speed the game up.
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Przemyslaw Kozlowski
Canada
London
Ontario
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InfoCynic wrote:

With 4 experienced players, we've even started taking actions that don't interfere simultaneously. The first few rounds this generally doesn't work because everyone's planning village to get those place tiles, but after a while, especially once players have spread out from Orleans, it's fairly easy to see that there's no real conflicts, or maybe after start player takes a particular action, the rest of his actions don't conflict and he can just take them all while the others continue to go. I don't recommend this except with very experienced players, but it can really speed the game up.


I found it works even with new players as long as you have 1-2 experienced players as well. Before executing we look at the board and if there are any possible conflicts, we execute actions one at a time in turn order. As soon as the conflict is resolved, everyone executes their remaining actions simultaneously. It speeds up 4-5 games a lot.

We usually only get 1-2 requests for a "lock in" per game.
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Adam Roach
United States
Edmond
Oklahoma
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I really do not find that player screens are necessary. In general if there is an action that someone can truly block you on (last person to take one of a type worker, or last space in a town hall set) you should request that tiles are placed in turn order. Sure this also lets the player in last look at everything, but it gives you the information you need.

Outside of this the only other "if you do this" action I can think of is being left in last place on the farmer track and 1 point is not worth paying that much attention to.
 
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Carl Bussema
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azmod2000 wrote:
I found it works even with new players as long as you have 1-2 experienced players as well. Before executing we look at the board and if there are any possible conflicts, we execute actions one at a time in turn order. As soon as the conflict is resolved, everyone executes their remaining actions simultaneously. It speeds up 4-5 games a lot.

We usually only get 1-2 requests for a "lock in" per game.


Yeah, I could see simultaneous actions working with the right new players, but generally I find new players understand the flow of the game much better if at least for the first several rounds, you walk through resolving actions one a time, so it's clear what's going on. Skipping / combining steps tends to just leave them confused about what's going on and wondering why something doesn't work that way later. But yeah, even if you have to do part of a round in strict order, eventually you reach a point where there's no remaining conflicts and just go fully simultaneous.

We can play a 4p game in about 1.5-1.75 hours this way with experienced players. Much better than the 2.5 hours it would take otherwise.
 
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Clyde W
United States
Washington
Dist of Columbia
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You just invoke turn order if it'll matter for that round.
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A J
United States
Riverside
CA
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clydeiii wrote:
You just invoke turn order if it'll matter for that round.


That's exactly how we play.
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Baker Odom
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Bluffton
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ayejae wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
You just invoke turn order if it'll matter for that round.


That's exactly how we play.


Exactly. Pretty sure the rules even state that everyone places their workers simultaneously unless someone needs turn order to be used.
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elac yenwod
United States
Arizona
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From my understanding if you lock in tokens to actions that can't be taken, you can't take that action. So to that point, you can't remove the tokens until you burn bag draws to remove them to use them elsewhere.

If you used shields to hide your boards, 3/4 through the game would come to a screeching halt and a lot of players would lose actions. I could see it being extremely frustrating.

I always say it repeatedly in the rules explanation "Pay attention to turn order and the number remaining of an action you want to take. If there isn't enough tokens left you might not get the action." Some players listen, some don't. One guy at a meet up was warned repeatedly, even throughout the game and it still happened 3 times and he called me a cheater and I robbed him of his victory.
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