Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
36 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Star Wars: Rebellion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Is it just me or are tactics cards the most useless thing ever made. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
wookie mart
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I love the game but these tactics cards just drag down the experience.

For example:

What am I supposed to do with only one tactics card that requires me to discard another card to do anything.

Or when I have no cards in hand but roll one light saber symbol on the dice so i use it to draw a card, that card needs me to burn that same symbol to activate its ability.

That is a very sloppy system that really needs to be cleaned up by the game designers.

I appreciate that a lot of people on here are trying to address this issue but when you think about the amount of money we spent on this game we need to get in touch with the game makers and make them understand that this is a problem.

EDIT: The point I'm trying to make is that, although I respect that such a mechanic should never be a sure bet on a positive result, the current state of it is actually not providing much if any potential positives. The cards are too dependent on getting really good dice rolls, in order to accomplish anything. And given that combat is all dependent on getting good dice rolls in the first place then the argument that these tactics cards can turn a battle around is not very convincing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Evan Stegman
United States
Minneapolis
MN
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
How is it a problem? Lots of games have situations where the cards you have in hand are useless for the current circumstances.
14 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Lesouef
France
Ermont
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
wookiemart wrote:
with only one tactics card that requires me to discard another card to do anything.
Roll a light saber result!

wookiemart wrote:
Or when I have no cards in hand but roll one light saber symbol on the dice so i use it to draw a card, that card needs me to burn that same symbol to activate its ability.
Keep your card and roll a light saber result during the next combat round.

wookiemart wrote:
That is a very sloppy system that really needs to be cleaned up by the game designers.

I appreciate that a lot of people on here are trying to address this issue but when you think about the amount of money we spent on this game we need to get in touch with the game makers and make them understand that this is a problem.
I really don't see where is the pb... If you want to be sure to use this sort of cards, send a good leader (with high tactics values) in this combat.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
wookie mart
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
EvanMinn wrote:
How is it a problem? Lots of games have situations where the cards you have in hand are useless for the current circumstances.


You make a good point, the problem with this game is that in my last game I started noticing that over the course of 4 consecutive battles I managed to use 2 tactics cards for a mediocre effect on the outcome, leaving me with about 8 useless cards.

I respect that not all cards are going to be useful all the time but the current ratio of useful vs useless is a bit off.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
wookie mart
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
judograal wrote:
wookiemart wrote:
with only one tactics card that requires me to discard another card to do anything.
Roll a light saber result!

wookiemart wrote:
Or when I have no cards in hand but roll one light saber symbol on the dice so i use it to draw a card, that card needs me to burn that same symbol to activate its ability.
Keep your card and roll a light saber result during the next combat round.

wookiemart wrote:
That is a very sloppy system that really needs to be cleaned up by the game designers.

I appreciate that a lot of people on here are trying to address this issue but when you think about the amount of money we spent on this game we need to get in touch with the game makers and make them understand that this is a problem.
I really don't see where is the pb... If you want to be sure to use this sort of cards, send a good leader (with high tactics values) in this combat.


You presume that I can get the dice to do my bidding. To give you some context, in my last game I rolled all blank faces on all my dice rolls two combats in a row.

My opinion is that tactics cards should be designed to help mitigate bad dice rolls instead of depending heavily on me getting good dice rolls.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas with Subtrendy
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
Sometimes you're just going to be unlucky, be it from the dice or your own poor decision making.

Tactic cards aren't always game winning, but neither are all real life tactics. Sometimes, though, they're just what you need to turn the tide.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
wookie mart
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I'm not asking for the tactics cards to be an all winning tool but, my experience with them so far has been that they basically accomplish little if anything at all. Even when I have a leader with high values involved in the combat.

The mechanics as they are lack elegance.

Which is too bad because the rest of the game is quite elegant.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Angelus Seniores
Belgium
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
wookiemart wrote:
I'm not asking for the tactics cards to be an all winning tool but, my experience with them so far has been that they basically accomplish little if anything at all. Even when I have a leader with high values involved in the combat.

The mechanics as they are lack elegance.

Which is too bad because the rest of the game is quite elegant.


i havent had such an experience with the tactics cards.

they are actually a way to swing the battle towards a side dramatically!
-by the extra damage they can inflict, certainly since its not color-bound so you can choose to apply it to red or black health units freely!
-by blocking damage keeping your units alive
-by blocking retreat to finish off the opposing units.

while it might sometimes be impossible to play cards depending what condition is needed, they generally are much more useful than just 1 in 5 cards, you must have been unlucky in your draw and the idea is indeed to keep them till you can use them in the next combat round.

the cards add the swing in luck that can make battles epic; being able to inflict more damage than normal or survive longer thsn expected etc. which the dice cant emulate as well.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Lesouef
France
Ermont
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Angelsenior wrote:
they are actually a way to swing the battle towards a side dramatically!
-by the extra damage they can inflict, certainly since its not color-bound so you can choose to apply it to red or black health units freely!
-by blocking damage keeping your units alive
-by blocking retreat to finish off the opposing units.
Right!
Most of the time, the cards make the difference on smaller battles with equal force.
And above all, they often allow to succeed/prevent the play of Objective Cards (Destroy the SD, save your last fighter against DS).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kaufschtick
United States
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb


wookiemart wrote:
My opinion is that tactics cards should be designed to help mitigate bad dice rolls instead of depending heavily on me getting good dice rolls.


Hmm, IMHO, that is not the design intent of the tactics cards, and so that may be part of the reason you feel the way you do about them.

IMHO, the design intent was to allow leaders with certain skills to potentially receive advantages in some situations. The tactic cards never struck me as something intended to be a sure bet in every combat.

It's interesting the ratio of times you've had that the cards have been useful versus the times they have not been. My own experience with the tactics cards is just the opposite of yours, I've found them to be useful more often than not. I've never considered them to be poorly designed, however.

Maybe "Murphy's Laws" are conspiring against your games in that regard. I feel your frustration, I just don't agree with your conclusions about the tactic cards.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Lesouef
France
Ermont
Unspecified
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Old Curmudgeon wrote:
Maybe "Murphy's Laws" are conspiring against your games in that regard. I feel your frustration, I just don't agree with your conclusions about the tactic cards.
Or perhaps you just forget to shuffle decks between each battle and you draw the same cards?!
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Switzerland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I partially agree with the OP, in that you bring in a good leader to have an advantage in battle, but then draw a bunch of tactic cards which do not really help you and then you do not even roll the dice results to use them at all. A lot of "ifs" here that makes you wonder why to bring a leader in the first place (other than because you have to in order to attack).

So, in a way I agree that this part of the game is not following the most elegant and smoothest design choice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig S.
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmb
It seems to me that this thread belongs in the general discussion forum as there is no rules question being discussed...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Duncan Idaho
United States
NYC
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Jamiri wrote:

So, in a way I agree that this part of the game is not following the most elegant and smoothest design choice.


Any game with random draw/dice isn't following the smoothest design choice. Not all of us want all of our games to have smooth design - sometimes, we want random and memorable. That's what FFG delivers, and they make no qualms about it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
wookie mart
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
judograal wrote:
Angelsenior wrote:
they are actually a way to swing the battle towards a side dramatically!
-by the extra damage they can inflict, certainly since its not color-bound so you can choose to apply it to red or black health units freely!
-by blocking damage keeping your units alive
-by blocking retreat to finish off the opposing units.
Right!
Most of the time, the cards make the difference on smaller battles with equal force.
And above all, they often allow to succeed/prevent the play of Objective Cards (Destroy the SD, save your last fighter against DS).


Interesting, in my experience it has turned out to be the total opposite.

Simply because in smaller battles you wind up throwing less dice therefore less chances to actually get results on the dice (most results on dice rolls wind up blank) now add to that the potential 3 tactics cards from a good leader and they often require the use of a lightsaber symbol.

The following situation has happened to me repeatedly.

Throw 4 dice 3 blanks 1 hit, I have three tactics one is do 1 hit the other two require lightsabers. So I play the do 1 hit and the other two are useless until the next round. Which is highly unlikely given that this is a small combat.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
wookie mart
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Idaho11 wrote:
Any game with random draw/dice isn't following the smoothest design choice. Not all of us want all of our games to have smooth design - sometimes, we want random and memorable. That's what FFG delivers, and they make no qualms about it.


That's fine but the problem lies in the fact that the tactics cards generally require good dice rolls to activate, and since combat is all about getting good dice rolls in the first place, then the tactics cards feel sort of redundant in that more often than not they make a bad situation worse for the player with the bad dice rolls.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig S.
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmb
wookiemart wrote:
Idaho11 wrote:
Any game with random draw/dice isn't following the smoothest design choice. Not all of us want all of our games to have smooth design - sometimes, we want random and memorable. That's what FFG delivers, and they make no qualms about it.


That's fine but the problem lies in the fact that the tactics cards generally require good dice rolls to activate, and since combat is all about getting good dice rolls in the first place, then the tactics cards feel sort of redundant in that more often than not they make a bad situation worse for the player with the bad dice rolls.


Sorry, but how do you figure they make a bad situation worse? Some may not help you at the moment, but there is not a single tactics card that actually hurts you.

Or are you just speaking in terms of being upset at both being in a losing battle and being frustrated with your cards at the same time?

Personally I think the tactics cards are quite well balanced and work well. They add a necessary twist to combat that would otherwise be fairly bland.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Thomas with Subtrendy
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
wookiemart wrote:
judograal wrote:
Angelsenior wrote:
they are actually a way to swing the battle towards a side dramatically!
-by the extra damage they can inflict, certainly since its not color-bound so you can choose to apply it to red or black health units freely!
-by blocking damage keeping your units alive
-by blocking retreat to finish off the opposing units.
Right!
Most of the time, the cards make the difference on smaller battles with equal force.
And above all, they often allow to succeed/prevent the play of Objective Cards (Destroy the SD, save your last fighter against DS).


Interesting, in my experience it has turned out to be the total opposite.

Simply because in smaller battles you wind up throwing less dice therefore less chances to actually get results on the dice (most results on dice rolls wind up blank) now add to that the potential 3 tactics cards from a good leader and they often require the use of a lightsaber symbol.

The following situation has happened to me repeatedly.

Throw 4 dice 3 blanks 1 hit, I have three tactics one is do 1 hit the other two require lightsabers. So I play the do 1 hit and the other two are useless until the next round. Which is highly unlikely given that this is a small combat.


That's a pretty good point, but I've done some serious damage with a small amount of troops by carefully choosing a leader. I've taken out an AT-AT and the better part of 5 Stormtroopers with only a single airspeeder and two troopers with careful use of blocking and damage dealing cards.


 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Doug DeMoss
United States
Stillwater
Minnesota
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
wookiemart wrote:
Idaho11 wrote:
Any game with random draw/dice isn't following the smoothest design choice. Not all of us want all of our games to have smooth design - sometimes, we want random and memorable. That's what FFG delivers, and they make no qualms about it.


That's fine but the problem lies in the fact that the tactics cards generally require good dice rolls to activate, and since combat is all about getting good dice rolls in the first place, then the tactics cards feel sort of redundant in that more often than not they make a bad situation worse for the player with the bad dice rolls.


Less than half of them require a saber die roll to activate. The more powerful ones do, sure, but the basic ones (block a damage, inflict a damage, reroll dice) don't. What they REALLY accomplish is leave you unable to predict what your opponent can do to the extent that he has tactics cards. When he does, you may need to apply extra hits to critical units to make sure they're taken out because of the potential for blocking (as an example).
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
wookie mart
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
csouth154 wrote:
[q="wookiemart"]

Sorry, but how do you figure they make a bad situation worse? Some may not help you at the moment, but there is not a single tactics card that actually hurts you.

Or are you just speaking in terms of being upset at both being in a losing battle and being frustrated with your cards at the same time?

Personally I think the tactics cards are quite well balanced and work well. They add a necessary twist to combat that would otherwise be fairly bland.


I mean that in order to turn a bad combat situation around the cards that can accomplish this are mostly dependent on a player rolling well on the dice. And if a player rolled well on the dice in the first place then the combat is already going in their favour.



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig S.
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmb
wookiemart wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
[q="wookiemart"]

Sorry, but how do you figure they make a bad situation worse? Some may not help you at the moment, but there is not a single tactics card that actually hurts you.

Or are you just speaking in terms of being upset at both being in a losing battle and being frustrated with your cards at the same time?

Personally I think the tactics cards are quite well balanced and work well. They add a necessary twist to combat that would otherwise be fairly bland.


I mean that in order to turn a bad combat situation around the cards that can accomplish this are mostly dependent on a player rolling well on the dice. And if a player rolled well on the dice in the first place then the combat is already going in their favour.


Forgive me, but it seems like you may be doing something incorrectly...

In combat, the only symbol that has anything to do with tactics cards has absolutely NO other effect on the combat. Are you perhaps thinking that crossed sabers in combat represent 2 hits in combat because they represent 2 successes during missions? If so, that is not the case. Crossed sabers in combat let you draw tactics cards or play tactics cards that require them as a cost. That's all...



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
wookie mart
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
demoss1 wrote:


Less than half of them require a saber die roll to activate. The more powerful ones do, sure, but the basic ones (block a damage, inflict a damage, reroll dice) don't. What they REALLY accomplish is leave you unable to predict what your opponent can do to the extent that he has tactics cards. When he does, you may need to apply extra hits to critical units to make sure they're taken out because of the potential for blocking (as an example).


That would be marvellous if the dice were not designed to generally fail and actually provide you with the extra damage to dish out and therefore not depend so much on the so called tactics cards.

In the end what the combination of dice and tactics cards accomplishes is just draw out a combat that could have been decided in a much more fluid fashion.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
wookie mart
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
csouth154 wrote:
Forgive me, but it seems like you may be doing something incorrectly...

In combat, the only symbol that has anything to do with tactics cards has absolutely NO other effect on the combat. Are you perhaps thinking that crossed sabers in combat represent 2 hits in combat because they represent 2 successes during missions? If so, that is not the case.





We do NOT count them as a hit but they are an intricate part of combat since they provide and trigger tactics cards so rolling one is always going to be better than a blank and therefore I count that as a good roll.

Here is an example of what I determine to be a good vs bad roll on 4 dice:

Good: Lightsaber, HIT, HIT, Blank

Bad: Hit, Blank, Blank, Blank

If both players have nothing but Lightsaber dependent cards in hand then his good roll made things better.

The same cannot be said for the player with the bad roll.

and therefore the argument that tactics cards have the potential to turn around a combat may be true but is highly mitigated by how the dice go in the first place.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Craig S.
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmb
wookiemart wrote:
csouth154 wrote:
Forgive me, but it seems like you may be doing something incorrectly...

In combat, the only symbol that has anything to do with tactics cards has absolutely NO other effect on the combat. Are you perhaps thinking that crossed sabers in combat represent 2 hits in combat because they represent 2 successes during missions? If so, that is not the case.





We do NOT count them as a hit but they are an intricate part of combat since they provide and trigger tactics cards so rolling one is always going to be better than a blank and therefore I count that as a good roll.


Well, then perhaps you should adjust your expectations of those symbols, then. Tactics cards usually help, but not always. It seems like you are getting angry simply because a symbol on the dice isn't always as beneficial to you as you think it should be...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
wookie mart
Canada
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
csouth154 wrote:


Well, then perhaps you should adjust your expectations of those symbols, then. Tactics cards usually help, but not always. It seems like you are getting angry simply because a symbol on the dice isn't always as beneficial to you as you think it should be...



sigh... again...

I accept the fact that these types of mechanics should not be all powerful all the time, I am making the argument that they are in fact the total opposite in that they generally wind up doing very little and that they might need some tweaking.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.