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Subject: Add the Marshlands Terrain Cards or Replace existing ones? rss

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Tylor Lilley
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Hello all!

In reading the rule book for the new expansion it has this to say about the new Marshlands Terrain cards:

Marshlands Rule Book wrote:
Shuffle the 5 new Terrain cards with the cards of the base game.


What is the reason for doing this instead of simply replacing five of the original terrain cards, one of each type, with the new one?

I was of the understanding that the Terrain deck was carefully balanced to have 1/5 of the deck each be each type of terrain. Replacing the cards would keep that ration consistent AND make the new terrain type, Marshalnd, also be 1/5 of the terrain deck.

Doing it the way the rule book suggests would still keep the ratio of each type of terrain the same, but it would also make it possible to draw the same type of terrain for even more turns in a row, which only exacerbates that problem that exists without this expansion. It also means that the Marshland type is not also 1/5 of the terrain deck. Maybe this was on purpose?

But if they are shuffled in permanently and no boards with Marshland spaces come up, this is basically just adding one type of each terrain into the terrain deck, which only serves to make it possible to draw yet more of the same terrain card in a row before the pile is reshuffled.

I'd love to hear thoughts on this from other players! Let me know what you think of this new rule! Thanks.
 
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Rick Teverbaugh
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Swamps should not be one-fifth of the deck in my estimation because Swamps aren't on one-fifth of the boards. I am mixing them in without replacing anything as the rules say to do.
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Donald X.
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tylorlilley wrote:
Doing it the way the rule book suggests would still keep the ratio of each type of terrain the same, but it would also make it possible to draw the same type of terrain for even more turns in a row, which only exacerbates that problem that exists without this expansion. It also means that the Marshland type is not also 1/5 of the terrain deck. Maybe this was on purpose?

But if they are shuffled in permanently and no boards with Marshland spaces come up, this is basically just adding one type of each terrain into the terrain deck, which only serves to make it possible to draw yet more of the same terrain card in a row before the pile is reshuffled.

I didn't need Marshes to be 1/5 of the deck. It seemed easy to just add 5 cards; replacing 5 cards would mean you had those other cards sitting around. I never considered doing it.

I see what you are saying about increasing the chance of drawing the same terrain card, in games with no Marshes (in games with Marshes, it's the opposite). That wasn't intentional, but no-one ever commented on it during playtesting, and I didn't feel like, these games aren't as good somehow. Of course I almost always had a board from that set - I was playtesting Marshlands so of course I had those boards, then I was playtesting Harvest but Marshlands could still be changed and so was often used. I have had games with the cards and no boards though.

Anyway as always feel free to play by whatever house rules you like, including taking out one of each other terrain card. I do not think that will cause you any issues.
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Tylor Lilley
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donaldx wrote:
tylorlilley wrote:
Doing it the way the rule book suggests would still keep the ratio of each type of terrain the same, but it would also make it possible to draw the same type of terrain for even more turns in a row, which only exacerbates that problem that exists without this expansion. It also means that the Marshland type is not also 1/5 of the terrain deck. Maybe this was on purpose?

But if they are shuffled in permanently and no boards with Marshland spaces come up, this is basically just adding one type of each terrain into the terrain deck, which only serves to make it possible to draw yet more of the same terrain card in a row before the pile is reshuffled.

I didn't need Marshes to be 1/5 of the deck. It seemed easy to just add 5 cards; replacing 5 cards would mean you had those other cards sitting around. I never considered doing it.

I see what you are saying about increasing the chance of drawing the same terrain card, in games with no Marshes (in games with Marshes, it's the opposite). That wasn't intentional, but no-one ever commented on it during playtesting, and I didn't feel like, these games aren't as good somehow. Of course I almost always had a board from that set - I was playtesting Marshlands so of course I had those boards, then I was playtesting Harvest but Marshlands could still be changed and so was often used. I have had games with the cards and no boards though.

Anyway as always feel free to play by whatever house rules you like, including taking out one of each other terrain card. I do not think that will cause you any issues.


I am by no means saying that replacing them is what "should" have happened; it was just a thought I had about what adding them would mean. Clearly I am not the expert game designer here!

I thank you for the insight into the design process. It's interesting to hear that this idea or decision never came up, as it was obviously one of the first things I thought of.

I will probably go ahead and just add them in as the rules suggest, but I'll keep an eye on how that goes and report back for anyone else interested on whether I notice a difference or not.

Thanks again for your responses!
 
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Matt Smith
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I haven't read the rulebook yet (just got the game yesterday, finally), but does it say/imply the 5 new cards are to be added to the deck even if you're not using any Marshlands boards? I would think the 5 cards would NOT be added to the deck unless you're using at least one Marshlands board.

Regardless, I'll probably not include the 5 cards unless a Marshlands board is in play.
 
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Russ Williams
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mvettemagred wrote:
I haven't read the rulebook yet


Here you go!
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/filepage/118690/kingdom-builde...
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Matt E
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mvettemagred wrote:
I haven't read the rulebook yet (just got the game yesterday, finally), but does it say/imply the 5 new cards are to be added to the deck even if you're not using any Marshlands boards? I would think the 5 cards would NOT be added to the deck unless you're using at least one Marshlands board.

Regardless, I'll probably not include the 5 cards unless a Marshlands board is in play.

The rulebook gives you the option of leaving them in or taking them out, at your discretion.
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