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Subject: Party Comp rss

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Rob Wrigley
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Who/what is you preferred party composition for the following:

(A) Single Character
(B) Two Characters
(C) Three Characters
(D) Four+ Characters

Do you consider party comp when your group picks characters? Does comp even matter in SOB, or am I just emotionally and intellectually crippled from years wasted raiding?
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Dillon Flaherty
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I haven't played a ton of it, but I'm thinking you won't need any kind of comp optimizing like a WoW raid would have required. There are certainly some characters that function a little better as support, and some do lots of damage - but for the most part they can be spec'd or equipped out to balance other needs of the group.

I played one game with two, and bumped it up to four characters afterwards - it was a lot to handle solo, but so much more fun to see bigger groups of enemies and be able to specialize the characters more.
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Bobby Warren
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About the only thing I would say would be best is to have some healing in the group -- either a Preacher, Saloon Girl, or Doctor. They can help keep a party on their feet.

Try and have at least one character with a lot of health. That helps a lot as well.

Other than that, mixing and matching works quite well.
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Adria D
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The only time I really consider party composition is with 5 or 6 heroes. Sometimes even with 4. When the party size gets up there, I usually ensure there's a strong support character - Preacher, Doc (haven't tried yet), specific builds of other classes (ie Lawman). This is largely due to the fact that some heroes won't get to hit much - everything will be beaten by the higher initiative heroes. This lets someone contribute meaningfully without needing to be in combat every fight.
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Jee Fu
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I find that 3 players is the point of optimal fun-factor for SoB. 2 and 4 are pretty fun too; 5-6 requires either extremely or easily-engaged players, or 2+ people who knows the rules intimately and are capable of running the game.

In terms of balancing the posse - you either need a healer or a tank, but probably not both (although that will work too). And those roles can effectively be filled by classes you might not expect - a Home Remedies Rancher is a capable healer with the right build (Grit-generation, +Move, +Max-Grit, +Side-Bag). A Lawman makes a decent Tank with a mix of prevention upgrades, Determination upgrades, and Leadership.

- Jee
 
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Rob Wrigley
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Truth is, w/e the other players, I'm going to go Preacher. I miss raid heals. Until they add druids. I really miss Rejuving a whole raid.

What are the Tank classes in SOB? The Marshall, obviously. With the 3+ Defense and at least one explicit aggro-management ability in his tree. Who else?
 
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Eric Harman
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Your brain has been fried by wow. :-)

You don't need a specific party composition.

That said, my favorite class (so far) I'd the Marshal, so I'm always going to suggest he be included.

There are no true tanks, in the wow sense.
But, the Marshal and Saloon girl have 3+ saves. Additionally the Doc and Cowboy can have 3+ saves.
Finally the drifter is immortal, and is therefore the best punching bag.
Really anyone with solid defense and damage mitigation skills and charts flush with health and sanity on their chart can take hits well.

 
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Ugo Perillo
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i have in my party Priest, Saloon girl, indian scout and gunslinger, and it works very well
 
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Adam Harrison
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Specific classes aren't particularly important as each type of hero has a number of different roles that can perform or share duties of certain roles.

Generally, things go better when your heroes cover the basic roles of healer, tank, single tough target killer, and multi weak target killer. But, you can get by without covering at least one of those roles.

It's best not to overthink it. This game thrives on the story it builds and the stuff that happens to your characters, both good and bad.
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Rob Wrigley
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I'm kind of glad SOB hasn't been spreadsheeted and meta gamed to death. Years playing both wow and WHFB/40K has left me blinkered to the idea that games are meant to be fun.

Never-the-less, character(s) are the best at a solo game? I haven't had much success with any but the Marshall.
 
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Eric Harman
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robwrigley wrote:
I'm kind of glad SOB hasn't been spreadsheeted and meta gamed to death. Years playing both wow and WHFB/40K has left me blinkered to the idea that games are meant to be fun.

Never-the-less, character(s) are the best at a solo game? I haven't had much success with any but the Marshall.


I'd say the drifter is probably the best equipped for a solo game.
It's, by far, the most powerful class.
 
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Rob Wrigley
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What makes the Drifter so great? Besides being Clint Eastwood?
 
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Eric Harman
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robwrigley wrote:
What makes the Drifter so great? Besides being Clint Eastwood?


He can't die. He hits on 3s, starts with 3 max grit, has good defenses, and his skill trees contain skills that are about twice as good as the other characters'

His main disadvantage is being behind the other characters level wise. But if he's the only character he isn't behind.
 
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Andrea Florio
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My solo Hero is an Orphan that became a Preacher.

Awesome attack stats (Spirit bow = 8 attacks)
Decent healing (The first time I rolled a mutation, I got the prehensile tail to my surprise. She's wielding an holy book as well).

She has no damage bonus tough, other than the Preacher "Zealot" skill and eventual arrows.

The recover 1 hp/sanity per turn + faith healing + revive token is what makes the hero strong enough to solo.

 
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Bern Godfrey
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I like The Rancher class, they are closest to a "tank" as they have good health and decent sanity and the ability that allows you an extra shot (max 3) if you kill an enemy, can be very useful. My current team is Rancher, Lawman and Indian scout. They all level fairly evenly.
I'm going to try a two posse game with The Drifter and Jargono Native.
 
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David Griffin
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I used the Gunslinger, the Rancher, the Saloon Girl, and the Law Man (Sheriff). They seemed to be a good team for me. I also tried the Prospector, the Marshall, the Indian Scout (female) and the Drifter (but didn't play all his features, it was just an introductory game).

The first set is a solid team with the Saloon girl playing both healer and close in melee monster (which she does really well). The Gunslinger with quickdraw gives you some early triage of the monsters and good firepower. The Law man is pretty good too, and the Rancher is a good long range shooter. Nothing spectacular but a good mix for the game.

The second set, had I played it "right" would have had the Drifter cause a lot of increased difficulty for the party. As a single character he might well have been a good choice. Love the mini. The Marshal was surprisingly effective with the shotgun and the prospector was an excellent in-melee character. The Indian scout is also a good combo melee/ranged character with strong features.

It's hard to go wrong really, though the Drifter is the one character that should be selected with care by an experienced group that isn't afraid of the increased threat. That's what I think anyway.
 
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Jee Fu
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Cooperton wrote:

There are no true tanks, in the wow sense.

This isn't strictly true. The Marshal has a straight-up taunt ability in Look Out! so if you believe that the ability to actively grab aggro is a defining piece of a true tank's kit, then the Marshal satisfies this (in addition to high mitigation and health).

But I find this definition too limiting. Aggro functions differently here than in WoW, but it doesn't mean that there aren't classes/builds that can protect the posse by taking damage for them. Proximity and clear-pathing are the main determiners for who gets aggro in Brimstone. If you have a Hero with high HP/Mitigation, then all she needs to do to be an effective tank is:

a) stay close to the monsters (ideally prioritizing highest hitting ones and
b) position herself such that she blocks pathing/targeting to other Heroes.

To that end +Move, +Init, +Escape, +Pass-Through-Models can all be tanking stats if put to use by a skilled player.

This game has a reputation for being extremely random - and it totally is; but I suspect that most people undervalue player decisions. If run/kill is your only strategy then you will be OK in the Core Sets, but you will get destroyed in a place like Trederra (at least at early levels). Why? Well, mainly because they have nukes, hazmat suits, and air support. But other than that, the enemies punish you severely for not being in the right place at the right time. I suspect that's how most of the content is going to be going forward, so developing a keen eye for positioning is going to be (and in many ways already is) crucial to getting past level 3 without of bunch of injuries and without being dead broke cause you keep having to re-buy your stuff.

- Jee
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David Griffin
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Inspector Jee wrote:
Cooperton wrote:

There are no true tanks, in the wow sense.

This isn't strictly true. The Marshal has a straight-up taunt ability in Look Out! so if you believe that the ability to actively grab aggro is a defining piece of a true tank's kit, then the Marshal satisfies this (in addition to high mitigation and health).

But I find this definition too limiting. Aggro functions differently here than in WoW, but it doesn't mean that there aren't classes/builds that can protect the posse by taking damage for them. Proximity and clear-pathing are the main determiners for who gets aggro in Brimstone. If you have a Hero with high HP/Mitigation, then all she needs to do to be an effective tank is:

a) stay close to the monsters (ideally prioritizing highest hitting ones and
b) position herself such that she blocks pathing/targeting to other Heroes.

To that end +Move, +Init, +Escape, +Pass-Through-Models can all be tanking stats if put to use by a skilled player.

This game has a reputation for being extremely random - and it totally is; but I suspect that most people undervalue player decisions. If run/kill is your only strategy then you will be OK in the Core Sets, but you will get destroyed in a place like Trederra (at least at early levels). Why? Well, mainly because they have nukes, hazmat suits, and air support. But other than that, the enemies punish you severely for not being in the right place at the right time. I suspect that's how most of the content is going to be going forward, so developing a keen eye for positioning is going to be (and in many ways already is) crucial to getting past level 3 without of bunch of injuries and without being dead broke cause you keep having to re-buy your stuff.

- Jee


This interests me. Given the relatively minor terrain (granted Trederra adds a couple of new types you place on the map) I'm interested in what you feel the better tactics are for "being in the right place."
 
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Jee Fu
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Given the relatively minor terrain (granted Trederra adds a couple of new types you place on the map) I'm interested in what you feel the better tactics are for "being in the right place."

Most of the Trederran enemies have AoE attacks or abilities that either do a buttload of damage or decrease your defense (or both) if they connect with you. Some of them happen randomly, but they can all be planned around. Weapons of War further this consideration because there can be Force Fields that AoE-protect enemies, yet more AoE damage, or giant Laser Beams of Pain that will incinerate anything in its line of sight that doesnt have good def, good armor, and a lot of HP. The Trederran Lieutenants can bring yet another layer of position consideration onto the battlefield from their Tactics cards. And finally, the threat of Ambush attacks is ever looming due to Patrol markers.

Put all this in a blender and at the top of the Turn its not uncommon to say "ok everyone - if we dont end up here, here, here, and here by the end of our various moves, then Billy is gonna take 5 Hits of 2D6 damage, Lemont is gonna get completely surrounded by radioactive mutants, Annabelle will get likely get stunned and then eat all 6 dudes' worth of Carbine damage, and Doris will be stuck outside the Force Field where her uber damage will count for nothing. There is a 50% chance we're gonna get Ambushed by a Patrol next Turn, so if Lemont could hide behind the portal and still fire, then he'll be out of the running for Random-Heroes-to-Ambush. Don't forget the extra grenades from the possible Ambush. Also if Major Tentaclees over there calls in an airstrike then one of us is randomly going to take a boatload of AoE damage so whatever the F you do, do not stand next to other people!"

And so on. The punishment that Trederra dishes out is just too much to straight-up eat and heal through. You have to flat out avoid some of it, or at least channel it to your Tanks.

- Jee
 
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David Griffin
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Inspector Jee wrote:
carbon_dragon wrote:
Given the relatively minor terrain (granted Trederra adds a couple of new types you place on the map) I'm interested in what you feel the better tactics are for "being in the right place."

Most of the Trederran enemies have AoE attacks or abilities that either do a buttload of damage or decrease your defense (or both) if they connect with you. Some of them happen randomly, but they can all be planned around. Weapons of War further this consideration because there can be Force Fields that AoE-protect enemies, yet more AoE damage, or giant Laser Beams of Pain that will incinerate anything in its line of sight that doesnt have good def, good armor, and a lot of HP. The Trederran Lieutenants can bring yet another layer of position consideration onto the battlefield from their Tactics cards. And finally, the threat of Ambush attacks is ever looming due to Patrol markers.

Put all this in a blender and at the top of the Turn its not uncommon to say "ok everyone - if we dont end up here, here, here, and here by the end of our various moves, then Billy is gonna take 5 Hits of 2D6 damage, Lemont is gonna get completely surrounded by radioactive mutants, Annabelle will get likely get stunned and then eat all 6 dudes' worth of Carbine damage, and Doris will be stuck outside the Force Field where her uber damage will count for nothing. There is a 50% chance we're gonna get Ambushed by a Patrol next Turn, so if Lemont could hide behind the portal and still fire, then he'll be out of the running for Random-Heroes-to-Ambush. Don't forget the extra grenades from the possible Ambush. Also if Major Tentaclees over there calls in an airstrike then one of us is randomly going to take a boatload of AoE damage so whatever the F you do, do not stand next to other people!"

And so on. The punishment that Trederra dishes out is just too much to straight-up eat and heal through. You have to flat out avoid some of it, or at least channel it to your Tanks.

- Jee


This gives an idea but I'm still not sure it's instructive. I haven't played Trederra yet but I'm going to want to play it smart when I do. How exactly should I move to minimize the damage?
 
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Jee Fu
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carbon_dragon wrote:
This gives an idea but I'm still not sure it's instructive. I haven't played Trederra yet but I'm going to want to play it smart when I do. How exactly should I move to minimize the damage?

Oh, you wanted specific strategies? I'm not sure there's a comprehensive operating procedure that applies to all of Trederra. Every situation is different. If you're actively trying NOT to be KO'ed and you understand what all the mechanics in play are capable of (Enemies on the board, number of patrol markers on the Depth Tract, where the Cover is, etc), you should be able to form a plan about where to be, where not to be, who to protect, and who to shoot first. That's where the skill comes in - surveying the unique situation and trying to figure out how best to conquer it. The whole game is like this, but Trederra is simultaneously more complex and far less forgiving if you don't consistently do that well.

My basic strategies for Trederra are:

- Use Cover whenever possible (burn Grit to get there if you dont roll enough Move)

- Keep anyone with healing (Bandages included) 3 or less spaces away from everyone else

- Don't clump too much; lotta explosives in a warzone

- Get into Melee with ranged Enemies (esp. ones with Weapons of War) as fast as possible (burning Grit if you have too); you will eat far fewer grenades (and take less damage on the whole) if your whole posse in on board with this

- Use Line-of-Sight defensively. Hide around a corner and force the ranged enemies to come find you, then engage them in Melee (see above)

- Try to keep at least one nearby tile free of Enemies in case you need to burn a bunch of Grit for move and drag/revive a Hero mid-fight (this is good advice anywhere but its harder to do in Trederra because of Patrols, so you need to pay extra attention to it)

This in addition to anything you would normally be doing to avoid death and maximize your progress.

- Jee

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