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Massive Darkness» Forums » General

Subject: So what's the average experience with CMoN and shipping? rss

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Wesley M
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I've been reading up on a few of CMoN's past kickstarter projects and noticed some things. In their Zombicide kickstarter, they shipped the base game first and the other stuff later. Is this common?

Also, their The Others kickstarter has some shipping problems, apparently do to the bankruptcy of Hanjin. But even without the Hanjin bankruptcy, it still wouldn't have been on time (March 2016).

So, what are peoples experience with CMoN's shipping? I'm looking forward to MD, but I'm wondering if there are particular things I could possible expect.
 
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Thanee
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Z:BP had some delays (happens regularily with big games like this), so they decided to ship the base game seperately, to please the crowds, so to say. It was shortly before christmas, also, where people have time to play, so it was a nice gesture.

I would generally expect to get the games 1-2 months after what they projected initially. By the time (they did plenty such projects by now) their projections should get more accurate, really, but unexpected things can always happen.

Bye
Thanee
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Dustin Rhoades
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If it's a board game on Kickstarter you can forget about getting it on time. Just go on with life and be surprised when it shows up. Like a present. I've KS several games not a one has been on time or close to it. The more mini's the more delay in my experience.
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Flávio O
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I think the key is to just sit back and relax. You'll get it when it arrives. No amount of energy you'll spend complaining that it's been delayed will change a thing.

But that's just me.
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Shipping late is a common problem with many big kickstarters. CMON has a habit of adding unplanned fan requested content during the kickstarter as stretch goal, which increases the risk of delays. In an interview before the kickstarter the said they were going to avoid adding unplanned content this time and add 1-2 months to their delivery estimate just in case. They failed at not adding last minute content with both the reptile box and the unicorn (at least) so it just a question of whether the extra time they added was enough.
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reaching out from the in-between spaces...
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Baldwin
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While CMON is getting better at estimates (Zombicide Black Plaque Wave 1 was early, but wave 2 was late), it's best to add 6 months to the delivery time.

My latest CMON KS, The Others 7 Sins, was delivered 5-6 months late. I have no problems with it, these are delivery estimates.

If it comes earlier, smile.

Jorune

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daniel bullen
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You will live a long and prosperous life with such an attitude.
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Paul Lorphanpaibul
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With CMON, they are always late. They pretty much stated delivery date that they know they could not meet on all of their projects. Black Plaque was 6 months late, so was 7 Sins, B-Seiged was also late (4-5 months), Arcadia Quest is late and even their non-miniatures smaller project is late (Xenoshyft sequel).

Back their projects only if you are OK with the dateline for sure not going to be met. I used to think this is the norm for all KS projects but this year, all my other projects have came in early or set to come in as promise so it seems the norm is just CMON that are always late. (Scythe was early, World's Fair was early, Mythos' Tales early, Kamaika also early. On time arrival Tiny Epic Western and set to show up next few weeks is Vinhos, Tesla VS Edison expansion.
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James J

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Some good and some inaccurate answers so far. The best advice is to remain zen and it simply arrives when it arrives. Those people are on point. I've backed a bunch of games on KS and a few have arrived on time or early. So it does happen. But most run late.

The Black Plague core box going out early was a one-time deal that I doubt will ever be repeated. CMON had to eat the shipping for all of those boxes. But that was their biggest project to date (at the time), and it seemed to push back all the other projects this year. As a result, they have set longer delivery estimates on all future projects, Massive Darkness included. So they are learning.

The KS projects that tend to deliver on time are those with zero exclusive content (ie, KS is identical to retail) or close to it. The more exclusives (like CMON typically provides) the longer the delay.
 
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Brian Busha
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Everything said here about patience is dead on.

I'll also say that getting that box full of goodness, even just a basic pledge, is usually totally worth it. We're talking FULL. Just component-wise, it's always a crazy thing. I'm still going through The Others stuff.
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Magic Pink
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Tailsk wrote:
I've been reading up on a few of CMoN's past kickstarter projects and noticed some things. In their Zombicide kickstarter, they shipped the base game first and the other stuff later. Is this common?

Also, their The Others kickstarter has some shipping problems, apparently do to the bankruptcy of Hanjin. But even without the Hanjin bankruptcy, it still wouldn't have been on time (March 2016).

So, what are peoples experience with CMoN's shipping? I'm looking forward to MD, but I'm wondering if there are particular things I could possible expect.


I've never had an issue with them. Delays are very common on all KS projects and guaranteed on ones with lots of minis. In general CMoN's delays are far shorter than everyone else.
 
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Jay Rey
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The cost of shipping to Ireland (this country next to England but still in EU) is outrageous. Seriously.

 
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Jim Jones
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CMON's post-funding communication is deplorable and their inability to properly estimate their projects completion date is an embarrassment that their customers apathy keeps giving them a pass on.

kompan wrote:

The cost of shipping to Ireland (this country next to England but still in EU) is outrageous. Seriously.



Huh, hadnt noticed that it was more expensive than the UK, changing the addresses around it seems like its about a fiver more expensive. Shipping to Ireland's always a bitch.
 
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James J

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Uthred wrote:
CMON's post-funding communication is deplorable and their inability to properly estimate their projects completion date is an embarrassment that their customers apathy keeps giving them a pass on.


Agreed on the communication, but not on the "apathy". Some of us simply understand that CMON bloats their campaigns with a tremendous amount of extra value and take that into account when hearing about delays. If you can point me to any other KS creators that consistently offer as much value as CMON and deliver on time, I'm all ears. But AFAIK, they don't exist. So there is no comparison to be made. If you want this many exclusives, you go with CMON. If you prefer on-time, then you go with a project that offers you a lot less bang for your buck.
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Jim Jones
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japester1 wrote:
Uthred wrote:
CMON's post-funding communication is deplorable and their inability to properly estimate their projects completion date is an embarrassment that their customers apathy keeps giving them a pass on.


Agreed on the communication, but not on the "apathy". Some of us simply understand that CMON bloats their campaigns with a tremendous amount of extra value and take that into account when hearing about delays. If you can point me to any other KS creators that consistently offer as much value as CMON and deliver on time, I'm all ears. But AFAIK, they don't exist. So there is no comparison to be made. If you want this many exclusives, you go with CMON. If you prefer on-time, then you go with a project that offers you a lot less bang for your buck.


Genuinely amusing to see the same excuses being made by backers KS after KS, the first few times it may have been understandable that CMON under-estimated the production time required. But they now have 23 kickstarters behind them, they are fully familiar with their production, manufacturing and delivery pipeline. There is no excuse for giving a wildly incorrect estimate for completion and the fact continue to do so makes them look incompetent or duplicitous.
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reaching out from the in-between spaces...
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Uthred wrote:
japester1 wrote:
Uthred wrote:
CMON's post-funding communication is deplorable and their inability to properly estimate their projects completion date is an embarrassment that their customers apathy keeps giving them a pass on.


Agreed on the communication, but not on the "apathy". Some of us simply understand that CMON bloats their campaigns with a tremendous amount of extra value and take that into account when hearing about delays. If you can point me to any other KS creators that consistently offer as much value as CMON and deliver on time, I'm all ears. But AFAIK, they don't exist. So there is no comparison to be made. If you want this many exclusives, you go with CMON. If you prefer on-time, then you go with a project that offers you a lot less bang for your buck.


Genuinely amusing to see the same excuses being made by backers KS after KS, the first few times it may have been understandable that CMON under-estimated the production time required. But they now have 23 kickstarters behind them, they are fully familiar with their production, manufacturing and delivery pipeline. There is no excuse for giving a wildly incorrect estimate for completion and the fact continue to do so makes them look incompetent or duplicitous.


Actually what CMON does, and I do applaud them for it, is listen to backers during the campaign. This causes delays, but I won't complain if they change things to give Backers what they want.

For Arcadia Quest Inferno, they gave a backer requested Hero (forgot her name), and changed the rules for the Dragon Expannsions to make each of them more unique than originally planned. With their latest, Massive Darkness, they added a Unicorn and are revamping the campaign system. All backers request.

If that means a delay to give us requested features, great. That makes it less a pre-order and more a KS.

Jorune

EDIT: by the way, do you wish to actually discuss this or do you just want to put down anyone who has no issues with how CMON runs a KS?
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Andrew Cargill
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This will be my first CMoN KS, I wished I had gone on the Z:BP KS but I got it everything at retail eventually, personally I don't care how long it takes I just want a quality product...

For me that's what matters most is the end product, not how much/little communication there is or how long it takes, but that's my opinion.
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Jim Jones
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Jorune wrote:

EDIT: by the way, do you wish to actually discuss this or do you just want to put down anyone who has no issues with how CMON runs a KS?


Considering your style of "discussion" involves framing events in the best possible light for CMON and repeatedly failing to address any points which contradict the narrative you're building, no, I have no interest in discussing it with you specifically. In general there's nothing to discuss, if you're happy with how CMON runs their KS, then you're happy with it, I have no interest in convincing you otherwise. Similarly, if you're unhappy with how KS runs their KS then no-one is going to convince you that the commonly complained about issues (terrible communication, manufacturing delays caused by poor planning rather than "doing it for the backers", etc) are ok.

This thread was asking for peoples experience with CMON and their shipping, which I tried to answer without being entirely subjective. It's a fact their post-funding communication is a) significantly less frequent than during the campaign (understandable to a degree but the disparity is huge), b) less frequent than similar projects and c) often complained about. Similarly its a fact that the majority of their projects suffer significant delays despite their considerable experience with KS and their own production, manufacturing and shipping pipeline. Admittedly describing their continued incompetence as an embarrassment was editorialising. Likewise, it is a fact that they can "get away with it" because the majority of backers keep backing projects despite these problems. Something I myself was guilty off until recently, but The Others was the last straw so I'll be leaving my MD pledge at $1. After all I'll have plenty to play when The Others, AQ:I, Xenoshyft Dreadmire and Masmorra arrive, WHENEVER that may be as all are delayed.

I'm not sure what people feel theyre accomplishing by trying to deflect any legitimate criticism of CMON's operation. Then again, its hardly unique to see people invested in things unthinkingly spring to its defence. I mean where would half the "discussion" on the internet be without that?
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Uthred wrote:
Jorune wrote:

EDIT: by the way, do you wish to actually discuss this or do you just want to put down anyone who has no issues with how CMON runs a KS?


Considering your style of "discussion" involves framing events in the best possible light for CMON and repeatedly failing to address any points which contradict the narrative you're building, no, I have no interest in discussing it with you specifically. In general there's nothing to discuss, if you're happy with how CMON runs their KS, then you're happy with it, I have no interest in convincing you otherwise. Similarly, if you're unhappy with how KS runs their KS then no-one is going to convince you that the commonly complained about issues (terrible communication, manufacturing delays caused by poor planning rather than "doing it for the backers", etc) are ok.

This thread was asking for peoples experience with CMON and their shipping, which I tried to answer without being entirely subjective. It's a fact their post-funding communication is a) significantly less frequent than during the campaign (understandable to a degree but the disparity is huge), b) less frequent than similar projects and c) often complained about. Similarly its a fact that the majority of their projects suffer significant delays despite their considerable experience with KS and their own production, manufacturing and shipping pipeline. Admittedly describing their continued incompetence as an embarrassment was editorialising. Likewise, it is a fact that they can "get away with it" because the majority of backers keep backing projects despite these problems. Something I myself was guilty off until recently, but The Others was the last straw so I'll be leaving my MD pledge at $1. After all I'll have plenty to play when The Others, AQ:I, Xenoshyft Dreadmire and Masmorra arrive, WHENEVER that may be as all are delayed.

I'm not sure what people feel theyre accomplishing by trying to deflect any legitimate criticism of CMON's operation. Then again, its hardly unique to see people invested in things unthinkingly spring to its defence. I mean where would half the "discussion" on the internet be without that?


I find it interesting that your last straw in regards to delays is also the one that is probably the least CMON's fault.

Here's an update from another company that's a bit better at communicating what goes on with having things made in China. It might give you some more insight into why people who follow things closer tend to shrug off production delays and bad delivery estimates.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1513061270/reaper-minia...
This same problem shows up over and over in kickstarters no matter how establish or experienced the company running things is. Typically it's only hinted at, kept vague, or glossed over entirely over worries that the factory will read it and expand the delays even further.
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