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The Oracle of Delphi» Forums » Variants

Subject: Variable goals rss

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Thomas
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I was thinking of randomly removing 3-4 "different" objectives from each player to add a bit of mystery to the game. Any thoughts on what effect this might have? A positive is it might shorten the game length a little too. Would like to hear from people that have played the game on their thoughts.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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You've had really bad ideas before, but this... is another of 'em.
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Thomas
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Thunkd wrote:
You've had really bad ideas before, but this... is another of 'em.


Without any elaboration your response is just as bad
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A Huynh
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The publisher said it best:

barandur wrote:
It would be a different game then: The reason to give the players the same tasks lead to many little races in the game: If I take the blue Offering which is near the blue temple, I'm sending the other player the longer way.
If all players have different tasks, nobody get in each others way - we like it better the interactive way.


There is already lots of variability in the setup of the game, being able to be most efficient at completing tasks (and doing easier goals before other players) is part of the game. If you don't like the idea of a race game where everyone has the same goals (pretty much every race game), then don't get this game, or try it first before buying.

Adding randomized goal tiles just takes the interaction out of a game with already a low amount of direct interaction.
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Thomas
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As with all other Feld games we are used to multi player solitaire. This tread is for those who would like to try it.
 
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
As with all other Feld games we are used to multi player solitaire.


As you said in "all" other Feld games I would like to know where there is the "multi player solitaire" in:

The Speicherstadt
Luna
The Pillars of the Earth: Builders Duel
Spiel mit Lukas: Dribbel-Fieber
The Name of the Rose

and many others not to mention one of his best: The Castles of Burgundy.

After I saw the first play-throughs this game is an instant buy for me at Essen!

 
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
As with all other Feld games we are used to multi player solitaire. This tread is for those who would like to try it.


Just my two cents: It was once like you proposed. It got changed for a reason.
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chris ward
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
As with all other Feld games we are used to multi player solitaire. This tread is for those who would like to try it.


You specifically asked for negatives in the OP.
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A Huynh
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cw67q wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
As with all other Feld games we are used to multi player solitaire. This tread is for those who would like to try it.


You specifically asked for negatives in the OP.


I guess he just wants people to agree that he knows how to make the game better than Stefan Feld and the publisher.
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A Huynh
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
As with all other Feld games we are used to multi player solitaire.


Even the lower interaction Feld games have indirect interaction through blocking. Off the top of my head: Notre Dame, Macao, The Castles of Burgundy, Trajan, Bora Bora have lower direct interaction but are all games that you have to pay attention to what your opponents are doing in order to deny them moves that would benefit their overall strategy. Calling his games 'multiplayer solitaire' does them a disservice.
 
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Chris Ruf
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This is just another case of LSD thinking he had to change a game because he doesn't like the idea of something in it instead of just accepting a game as is. He isn't going to listen to anyone that doesn't agree or elaborate on his idea. Even though he asked how it would change the game, and what the negatives could be, he actually doesn't care about hearing any of that. He has already made this obvious.
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Thomas
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Legend5555 wrote:
This is just another case of LSD thinking he had to change a game because he doesn't like the idea of something in it instead of just accepting a game as is. He isn't going to listen to anyone that doesn't agree or elaborate on his idea. Even though he asked how it would change the game, and what the negatives could be, he actually doesn't care about hearing any of that. He has already made this obvious.


Dude it's a simple variant ID. DId i say the game sucked or was broken. NO so don't put words in my mouth.

We prefer variable goals and this seems like a simple change that wouldn't break the game.. If anyone wants to try they can try it and report back..

The rest of you can take the pitch forks elsewhere.
 
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Thomas
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katanan wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
As with all other Feld games we are used to multi player solitaire.


Even the lower interaction Feld games have indirect interaction through blocking. Off the top of my head: Notre Dame, Macao, The Castles of Burgundy, Trajan, Bora Bora have lower direct interaction but are all games that you have to pay attention to what your opponents are doing in order to deny them moves that would benefit their overall strategy. Calling his games 'multiplayer solitaire' does them a disservice.


What if the goals were left open then but each had a different set? This would add another layer of replayability too.
 
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Chris Ruf
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Legend5555 wrote:
This is just another case of LSD thinking he had to change a game because he doesn't like the idea of something in it instead of just accepting a game as is. He isn't going to listen to anyone that doesn't agree or elaborate on his idea. Even though he asked how it would change the game, and what the negatives could be, he actually doesn't care about hearing any of that. He has already made this obvious.


Dude it's a simple variant ID. DId i say the game sucked or was broken. NO so don't put words in my mouth.

We prefer variable goals and this seems like a simple change that wouldn't break the game.. If anyone wants to try they can try it and report back..

The rest of you can take the pitch forks elsewhere.


At least try the game as is before trying to house rule it. The game hasn't even been released yet.
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A Huynh
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
katanan wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
As with all other Feld games we are used to multi player solitaire.


Even the lower interaction Feld games have indirect interaction through blocking. Off the top of my head: Notre Dame, Macao, The Castles of Burgundy, Trajan, Bora Bora have lower direct interaction but are all games that you have to pay attention to what your opponents are doing in order to deny them moves that would benefit their overall strategy. Calling his games 'multiplayer solitaire' does them a disservice.


What if the goals were left open then but each had a different set? This would add another layer of replayability too.


Even with the open goals that doesn't change that if one person got more temple goals than the other then it becomes *impossible* to block the other person, and especially if many temple goals end up being close together on the map then it is actually then a huge advantage to the other player. Your idea just introduces a balance issue where the variable map can just give an obvious advantage to a player who is dealt more goals that are easier to do.
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Thomas
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Legend5555 wrote:


At least try the game as is before trying to house rule it. The game hasn't even been released yet.


I have.. you should try it before judging my ideas.
 
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Chris Ruf
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Legend5555 wrote:
This is just another case of LSD thinking he had to change a game because he doesn't like the idea of something in it instead of just accepting a game as is. He isn't going to listen to anyone that doesn't agree or elaborate on his idea. Even though he asked how it would change the game, and what the negatives could be, he actually doesn't care about hearing any of that. He has already made this obvious.


Dude it's a simple variant ID. DId i say the game sucked or was broken. NO so don't put words in my mouth.

We prefer variable goals and this seems like a simple change that wouldn't break the game.. If anyone wants to try they can try it and report back..

The rest of you can take the pitch forks elsewhere.


I didn't say you thought the game was broken or sucked.

Furthermore, even though you specifically asked what the negatives of your change could be, you ignored anyone that posted a negative or critique of your idea. Perhaps you shouldn't ask if you don't want answers?
 
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Thomas
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Legend5555 wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Legend5555 wrote:
This is just another case of LSD thinking he had to change a game because he doesn't like the idea of something in it instead of just accepting a game as is. He isn't going to listen to anyone that doesn't agree or elaborate on his idea. Even though he asked how it would change the game, and what the negatives could be, he actually doesn't care about hearing any of that. He has already made this obvious.


Dude it's a simple variant ID. DId i say the game sucked or was broken. NO so don't put words in my mouth.

We prefer variable goals and this seems like a simple change that wouldn't break the game.. If anyone wants to try they can try it and report back..

The rest of you can take the pitch forks elsewhere.


I didn't say you thought the game was broken or sucked.

Furthermore, even though you specifically asked what the negatives of your change could be, you ignored anyone that posted a negative or critique of your idea. Perhaps you shouldn't ask if you don't want answers?


considering no one has really given any specifics besides cutting me down based on their opinion of me or past posts I haven't made however irrelevant to this one. I haven't seen anything constructive brought to the table. I'm open to hear from those that have played it (probably more once it's come out).
 
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Chris Ruf
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Legend5555 wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
Legend5555 wrote:
This is just another case of LSD thinking he had to change a game because he doesn't like the idea of something in it instead of just accepting a game as is. He isn't going to listen to anyone that doesn't agree or elaborate on his idea. Even though he asked how it would change the game, and what the negatives could be, he actually doesn't care about hearing any of that. He has already made this obvious.


Dude it's a simple variant ID. DId i say the game sucked or was broken. NO so don't put words in my mouth.

We prefer variable goals and this seems like a simple change that wouldn't break the game.. If anyone wants to try they can try it and report back..

The rest of you can take the pitch forks elsewhere.


I didn't say you thought the game was broken or sucked.

Furthermore, even though you specifically asked what the negatives of your change could be, you ignored anyone that posted a negative or critique of your idea. Perhaps you shouldn't ask if you don't want answers?


considering no one has really given any specifics besides cutting me down based on their opinion of me or past posts I haven't made however irrelevant to this one. I haven't seen anything constructive brought to the table. I'm open to hear from those that have played it (probably more once it's come out).


Look at AH's first post again.
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Aaron Brogdon
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Ah another LSD thread. They are always the same but still entertaining. Here's a hug. You seem to need it.
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Thomas
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katanan wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
katanan wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
As with all other Feld games we are used to multi player solitaire.


Even the lower interaction Feld games have indirect interaction through blocking. Off the top of my head: Notre Dame, Macao, The Castles of Burgundy, Trajan, Bora Bora have lower direct interaction but are all games that you have to pay attention to what your opponents are doing in order to deny them moves that would benefit their overall strategy. Calling his games 'multiplayer solitaire' does them a disservice.


What if the goals were left open then but each had a different set? This would add another layer of replayability too.


Even with the open goals that doesn't change that if one person got more temple goals than the other then it becomes *impossible* to block the other person, and especially if many temple goals end up being close together on the map then it is actually then a huge advantage to the other player. Your idea just introduces a balance issue where the variable map can just give an obvious advantage to a player who is dealt more goals that are easier to do.


What about drafting goals instead?
 
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Olli Juhala
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:


What about drafting goals instead?


Is there a particular reason you feel this aspect of the game actually needs a variant at a point before release?
 
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Chris Ruf
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
katanan wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
katanan wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
As with all other Feld games we are used to multi player solitaire.


Even the lower interaction Feld games have indirect interaction through blocking. Off the top of my head: Notre Dame, Macao, The Castles of Burgundy, Trajan, Bora Bora have lower direct interaction but are all games that you have to pay attention to what your opponents are doing in order to deny them moves that would benefit their overall strategy. Calling his games 'multiplayer solitaire' does them a disservice.


What if the goals were left open then but each had a different set? This would add another layer of replayability too.


Even with the open goals that doesn't change that if one person got more temple goals than the other then it becomes *impossible* to block the other person, and especially if many temple goals end up being close together on the map then it is actually then a huge advantage to the other player. Your idea just introduces a balance issue where the variable map can just give an obvious advantage to a player who is dealt more goals that are easier to do.


What about drafting goals instead?


I think this would cause the setup to slow down as people survey the board to see how to combine their goals together efficiently. If everyone got to see each person's picks, it could make the thought load even worse. Plus it still takes away from the interactive race aspect and really changes what the game is designed to do.
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Peter S.
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LunarSoundDesign wrote:
I was thinking of randomly removing 3-4 "different" objectives from each player to add a bit of mystery to the game. Any thoughts on what effect this might have? A positive is it might shorten the game length a little too. Would like to hear from people that have played the game on their thoughts.


Two thoughts:

1. I almost have to assume they playtested an idea like this, and chose not to do it.

2. The idea would need playtesting to determine if it's beneficial. Certainly something I would encourage you (and other folks who want to) to do once they own the game, but it's a little premature to ask other folks to try playtesting it now.
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Thomas
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ErsatzDragon wrote:
LunarSoundDesign wrote:
I was thinking of randomly removing 3-4 "different" objectives from each player to add a bit of mystery to the game. Any thoughts on what effect this might have? A positive is it might shorten the game length a little too. Would like to hear from people that have played the game on their thoughts.


Two thoughts:

1. I almost have to assume they playtested an idea like this, and chose not to do it.

2. The idea would need playtesting to determine if it's beneficial. Certainly something I would encourage you (and other folks who want to) to do once they own the game, but it's a little premature to ask other folks to try playtesting it now.


Fair enough.. The idea occurred to me, figured I would ask.. leason learned..really wish more people could refrain form the flaming and not pollute threads .
 
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