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Subject: How can there be a bilingual version of a word game?? rss

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Lucas Smith
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There are Dutch/German bilingual versions of Lingua. Obviously, the distribution of letters in the game has to match the distribution in the language used. Since Dutch and German obviously are two different languages, how can there be a single version??


(Dutch and German are not the worst languages to combine, still: look at the tables:
Letter/Dutch/German
A 7,66% 6,51 %
B 1,36% 1,89 %
C 1,30% 3,06 %
D 5,41% 5,08 %
E 19,06% 17,40 %
F 0,73% 1,66 % (!)
G 3,12% 3,01 %
H 3,12% 4,76 %
I 6,29% 7,55 %
J 1,82% 0,27 %
K 2,79% 1,21 % (!)
L 3,80% 3,44 %
M 2,56% 2,53 %
N 9,91% 9,78 %
O 5,80% 2,51 % (!)
P 1,49% 0,79 % (!)
Q 0,01% 0,02 %
R 5,62% 7,00 % (!)
S 3,84% 7,27 % (!!)
T 6,42% 6,15 %
U 2,10% 4,35 % (!)
V 2,24% 0,67 % (!!)
W 1,72% 1,89 %
X 0,05% 0,03 %
Y 0,06% 0,04 %
Z 1,60% 1,13 %
Ä 0,03% -
Ë 0,03% -
Ï 0,01% -
Ö 0,01% -
Ü 0,02% -
ß - 0,31 %

(The German letters Ä, Ö, Ü are counted as A, O, U, so the table is not 100% accurate)
 
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G Mc
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smithlucas wrote:
Obviously, the distribution of letters in the game has to match the distribution in the language used.


Does it though? I mean, it probably should, at least in a relative sense, like there should be more 'E's than 'X's sure... but it seems to fall into an acceptable degree of variation to have some letters that are more 'valuable' than others. If an 'O' is twice as common in one language, and a 'U' is twice as common in the other, then so be it. It just means a letter would be perceived as more 'valuable' depending on which language you're playing in. No?
 
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Lucas Smith
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gmc14 wrote:
smithlucas wrote:
Obviously, the distribution of letters in the game has to match the distribution in the language used.


Does it though? I mean, it probably should, at least in a relative sense, like there should be more 'E's than 'X's sure... but it seems to fall into an acceptable degree of variation to have some letters that are more 'valuable' than others. If an 'O' is twice as common in one language, and a 'U' is twice as common in the other, then so be it. It just means a letter would be perceived as more 'valuable' depending on which language you're playing in. No?

the problem is that the more "valuable" lettes don't give you more points.

(That's why there are a lot of different Scrabble versions for different languages.)

Another example: Y is by far more common in English than in German. So if I played Scrabble with an English set (using German words), I'd often get end up with a lot of Ys on my hand. Sure, you can call that a special "task" though I tend to prefer not to be confronted with such - obviously worse - draws. (Generally, you could of course also change the scoring value of a letter instead. (e.g. a Y scores higher in German than in English), though the didn't do that either in Lingua.)


After all, it's probably not that bad, you can certainly play the game the way it is (both in German and in Dutch) - looking forward to playing it. (The special feature seems to be that certain letters placed on certain spots give you a lot of bonus points.)

I just wish they had even considered this issue. They could for example have come up with a variant like this:
If you want to play in German, remove X pieces of [letter], Y pieces of [letter]...
If you want to play in Dutch remove X pieces of [letter], Y pieces of [letter]...

(If I even knew for which language it was originally designed. most probably for German, so maybe the problem is more relevant to Dutch players anyway)
 
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Alfred D.
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Lucas, what are your sources for the letter distribution in both languages?

I don't really get what you did with the umlaut[DE]-letters in the table.
In Dutch they are used differently, as trema[DU]-letters to mark that they need to be pronounced separately (e.g.: poëzie[DU] would be read as po-ezie). In wordgames the trema is usually simply omitted.




(edit: typo)
 
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Lucas Smith
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Der Das wrote:
Lucas, what are your sources for the letter distribution in both languages?

I don't really get what you did with the umlaut[DE]-letters in the table.
In Dutch they are used differently, as trema[DU]-letters to mark that they need to be pronounced seperately (e.g.: poëzie[DU] would be read as po-ezie). In wordgames the trema is usually simply omitted.

http://www.sttmedia.de/buchstabenhaeufigkeit-niederlaendisch
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buchstabenh%C3%A4ufigkeit
(not the most reliable sources, though sufficient for a quick check)
So it would probably be better to add the percentage of the letters Ä, Ë, Ï, Ö, Ü to A, E, I, O, U respectively (as it has been done for the German table)
 
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G Mc
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I totally get your point, and perhaps you could house-rule a language variant that removes some tiles if you found it to be a problem. I'm just thinking, personally, I'm alright with some draws being strictly 'better' than others, as long as a letter is usable in the given language.
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Alfred D.
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Yes, adding them to the regular letters would make sense. They don't even appear in the Lingua game.

It has been a long while since I have played this game, but I seem to remember that you could swap 2 letters for 2 new ones from the pool, instead of taking a normal turn.
 
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