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Subject: I already have The Scepter of Zavandor, any difference? rss

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Morgan Dontanville
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So from what I've read this is just another update of Outpost. What makes this different from The Scepter of Zavandor?
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Anthony Simons
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It seems more refined compared to Outpost, a lot of the extra fiddliness of Outpost doesn't exist here and it felt less scripted when I played (as opposed to the necessity of buying certain items as the game draws on). It also plays out in a more acceptable time frame.

JKLM have launched software which allows it to be played online; it might be an idea for you to try it that way (although it won't be the same as face-to-face IMO).
 
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Eric Brosius
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First, Phoenicia has been streamlined. You should be able to play it in less than an hour. Tom has done a great job taking out everything that isn't essential.

Second, the need to add up the values of a wide array of "money" cards is gone. A lot of people find this difficult and aggravating, and it can slow the game down. In Phoenicia, you have $4, $5 and $6 cards, and coins worth $1 each. This is one reason you can finish in less than an hour.

Third, the rules that slow down the leader and benefit the trailer are gone. Some people may like these rules, but I'd rather play quickly, award victory to the best (or possibly luckiest) player, and then play again.

I like Outpost a great deal (it's one of the few games I rate '10'.) I was very disappointed in Zeptor. With Phoenicia, I won't stop playing Outpost, but I'm sure I'll play Phoenicia more often, simply because it's quicker and more accessible.

One analogy I'd suggest is that Phoenicia is to Outpost as Power Grid is to Funkenschlag.
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Chris Bailey
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Eric Brosius wrote:
...You should be able to play it in less than an hour.


Count me in! I really liked Zavandor but it would be nice to be able to scratch the same itch in less then an hour if don't have a lot of time.
 
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Carl-Gustaf Samuelsson
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I've played a couple of games online to learn and understand the game.
There are similar nechanics as in dZvZ (das Zepter von Zavandor), which is my all time favourite (slightly better than Puerto Rico in my eyes). The tracability of the income and scoring on the general board is good, as well as reductions to certain future development cards. This is something which would had been good in dZvZ. The manipulating of the cards and moneys is interesting. It suffers from the same problem as dZvZ: you have to know and understand all the development cards to play well. I really hope that each player get a separate player aid with a card list, otherwise I need to create one myself. In total this is a must for me to buy.

It seems to be a very good game, but I'm worried that it will be difficult to catch the leader, but I must play it more to be sure about it. On the other hand I can see that the game should take less than 90 minutes, so it might not be a real problem.

I actually wondered if it could be possible to have a similar catchup mechanism as in dZvZ: Let the first player pay +2, 2nd +1, 3rd +0, 4th -1 and 5th -2 gold at the auctions and this should be activated when the first has reached 10vp. The order should be decided in a new first phase and first the score decides it and 2nd the income and if a tie it's random, although both pays the increase/decrease which is nearast to zero. In any case I need to play it a few times before I decide if this is necessary. Normally I avoid house rules, but it's not fun if the richest always gets richer and everyone else just wait for the game to end.
/Carl
 
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Eric Brosius wrote:
In Phoenicia, you have $4, $5 and $6 cards, and coins worth $1 each. This is one reason you can finish in less than an hour.


Hallelujah!
 
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Treacherous Cretin
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Looking forward to this, I have ZvZ but the time it takes to play limits its appearances on the table, despite it being a fantastic game.
 
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James Hamilton
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I played SvZ for the first time last night and while it is a good game I would say that Phoneicia has at least 90% of the game in a lot less than half the time.

Both have their place but I suspect that when I get my published copy of Phoneicia I will play it far more than SvZ which I am still unsure about purchasing.

Hammy
 
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Walt
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How does Phoenicia compare with St. Petersburg?
 
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Brian Bankler
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Tall_Walt wrote:
How does Phoenicia compare with St. Petersburg?


They aren't really in the same category. Phoenicia is a game where the real limit is actions -- you get to buy something, then wait until your next chance. You have money and VP generation (like Phoenicia), but it's driven by actions.

Auctions, not actions, drive Phoenicia.
 
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Eric Brosius
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Tall_Walt wrote:
How does Phoenicia compare with St. Petersburg?


I had a dream one night at the Gathering about a game that was a mixture of both, and when I told Tom about it, he said he had designed such a game! It was never completed, however (probably too bad for me, because I really like both games.)
 
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Paul Holman
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Tall_Walt wrote:
How does Phoenicia compare with St. Petersburg?


I felt it had a little similarity in look, and quite some similarity in feel, to St Petersburg. However, the game mechanisms are significantly different.
 
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