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Vast: The Crystal Caverns» Forums » Rules

Subject: New Version of Rules Summary rss

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David Fenton
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I've updated and issued an updated (no-longer-draft) version of the rules summary / unofficial errata: >>Link<<

This adds a few corrections from the old draft version, as well as adding a section on player interactions, terrain variant, and improving colors for better printing. I've also added comments (might need Adobe Reader to see them) showing links to the forum source of errata or differences from "Rules as Written".

Kyle W/Patrick: Let me know if you see anything that doesn't look right and I'll update / add comments. I've tried to only include errata / clarifications from you guys, but may have missed something. You might also be able to use this to make an "official" errata, since I've tried to incorporate everything from the forums (i.e. this collects most of it in one place).
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neko flying
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The "Basic Player Interactions" table --- wouldn't it be better to have the five roles in the columns instead of action / benefit detriment? By formatting the page as landscape you should be able to fit the information in, and I believe it would be more readable.

I would also make a second table like this one, where in the columns you have the different items, tiles and tokens in the game (gems, walls, firewall, lit tiles, dark tiles, crystals, and so on) and how each role interacts with them.
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David Fenton
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flying_neko wrote:
The "Basic Player Interactions" table --- wouldn't it be better to have the five roles in the columns instead of action / benefit detriment? By formatting the page as landscape you should be able to fit the information in, and I believe it would be more readable.
That probably make sense (doing it times-table style), so I'll consider it if I make a second version. For now I was limiting myself to formatting the sheets the same (hence portrait).

flying_neko wrote:
I would also make a second table like this one, where in the columns you have the different items, tiles and tokens in the game (gems, walls, firewall, lit tiles, dark tiles, crystals, and so on) and how each role interacts with them.
I have a feeling that this list would take up multiple pages, since you also have Terrain variants, and all these interactions are listed on each player's summary.

Plus, how much detail do you go into? Even allowed movement changes depending on what's doing the movement. Knight moving itself (can move onto Dark tiles if spending encounter and can use special moves), Knight moved by Wisp (blocked by tiles with any component on them), Knight moved by Dragon (blocked by tiles with other player), Knight moved off tile (may move onto tile with other players as long as no attack is triggered), etc.
At some point you add so much to a "summary" that it becomes over-wieldy.

Maybe a stand-alone sheet or set of sheets combining your two suggestions (player vs player interactions on one side and player vs component interactions on the other) might be more effective, separate from the summary.
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Kyle
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David - great work on these rules summaries! They've been really helpful with the Second Edition rules edits and the official FAQ that are in progress.


We wanted to give a little heads-up about some of the changes being made. Most of this has been referenced elsewhere previously.

The big change will be the addition of a frequently-requested "General Rules" page that will detail all of the major concepts that aren't specific to a single player. This will include things like filling in open edges to tiles, how to handle collapsing tiles, and what to do when the map gets split.

We're also consolidating all of the forced movement effects in a single place to make them much more consistent across the board. What I mean by that, is instead of an ability like Giant Bats, Slap, etc. listing who can be moved AND giving a bunch of minute details about where they can be moved, the ability text will simply say "Move A or B up to X-number of spaces". Then you can refer back to the forced movement section to see the movement rules specific to the character being moved. This will change some of the (mostly unintentional) nuances to certain abilities slightly, but it'll eliminate almost all of the confusing or weird edge cases and will make those movements much easier to deal with in general.

The same forced movement rules will apply when tiles get collapsed underneath a player too.



Changes to the rest of the rules will be very minor, but a lot of things are being restated or reworded to make them a lot more clean and easy to understand. The handful of "missing" rules, like the Knight always needing to reveal Dark tiles are included again too.
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David Fenton
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Woelf wrote:
We're also consolidating all of the forced movement effects in a single place to make them much more consistent across the board. What I mean by that, is instead of an ability like Giant Bats, Slap, etc. listing who can be moved AND giving a bunch of minute details about where they can be moved, the ability text will simply say "Move A or B up to X-number of spaces". Then you can refer back to the forced movement section to see the movement rules specific to the character being moved. This will change some of the (mostly unintentional) nuances to certain abilities slightly, but it'll eliminate almost all of the confusing or weird edge cases and will make those movements much easier to deal with in general.

The same forced movement rules will apply when tiles get collapsed underneath a player too.


Sounds awesome. Are you planning to change Wisp movement rules? (Main reason I ask is that if you do I believe it's the only card that would need to be changed...all other changes should be limited to Player Boards / Rulebook).

If you do update components, I'm sure 1st edition owners like myself would love to be able to purchase an "upgrade to v2" set.
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Kyle
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Wisp is included in the forced movement rules. Even though the wording will change, how it actually functions in the game will be essentially the same as before (move the visible Knight up to 3 spaces), and the same goes for all of the other pushing abilities.

The change will be in the minute details, like "unoccupied space" versus "space with no other players", and you won't need to keep track of which ability uses which of those restrictions because they'll all handle it the same way, with the differences based only on who or what is being pushed around.


As for component upgrades or replacements it hasn't been decided what's going to happen there yet, but I can say for certain that a PDF version of the second edition rules will be made publicly available once it's ready.
 
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David Fenton
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Woelf wrote:
Wisp is included in the forced movement rules. Even though the wording will change, how it actually functions in the game will be essentially the same as before (move the visible Knight up to 3 spaces), and the same goes for all of the other pushing abilities.

If any of the components will no longer be 100% accurate (for instance, the Wisp card text no longer applying if moving the Knight is always intended to be "no other players" as opposed to unoccupied spaces), it would be very helpful to have a one-sheet "Errata" list showing any corrections to components (or at least which components have changed).

That way someone won't have to hunt through the rulebook every time they draw a card to see if it's meaning is different...they can simply glance at the list, see that it's not on it, and move on (or see that it is on the list and then hunt for the change).
 
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Patrick Leder
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Yeah and whatever changes if I can keep an eye on it will be added to the upgrade pack. Assuming this is all cost effective.
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David Fenton
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GreenM wrote:
Yeah and whatever changes if I can keep an eye on it will be added to the upgrade pack. Assuming this is all cost effective.

Of course. And I see no reason to do something like a specialty reprinting of a single card. When the creators of Ars Victor noticed a rulebook error post-printing, they included the "Errata" on their Kickstarter "Thank You" sheet. In this case, a PDF "errata" for a card or two sounds completely reasonable. Ditto with player mats if there's only a few changes...no need to reprint them.

If there are significant changes and a second printing of components like Player Mats isn't feasible, providing an updated PnP would be appreciated.

Can't wait!
 
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