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Talisman (Revised 4th Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Unofficial Talisman Tier List! rss

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Schyler Love
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Washington
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Check out the Google Plus Talisman Group! https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/10893763229160871837...

This list was compiled based on years of experience along with hundreds of games with a focus on competitive victory, and based on all expansions being present, playing with the default ending. (I know many of you have been playing Talisman before I was even born, I'm not claiming OG) I'll post my reasoning for setting it up as such sometime in the near future. But if you have any specific questions concerning the list as a whole, or any character specifically let me know!

1. Alchemist
2. Wizard
3. Prophetess
4. Sprite
5. Conjurer
6. Warlock
7. Sage
8. Magus
9. Fire Wizard
10. Leprechaun
11. Merchant
12. Dragon Hunter
13. Bounty Hunter
14. Warlord
15. Amazon
16. Assassin
17. Warrior
18. Tavern Maid
19. Necromancer
20. Ogre Chieftain
21. Barbarian
22. Troll
23. Celestial
24. Cat Burglar
25. Spy
26. Elementalist
27. Black Knight
28. Possessed
29. Grave Robber
30. Thief
31. Sorceress
32. Spider Queen
33. Elf
34. Arcane Scion
35. Gladiator
36. Scout
37. Druid
38. Vampiress
39. Minotaur
40. Leywalker
41. Gypsy
42. Jin Blooded
43. Nomad
44. Doomsayer
45. Highlander
46. Valkyrie
47. Ghoul
48. Scavenger
49. Minstrel
50. Rogue
51. Mutant
52. Chivalric Knight
53. Dragon Rider
54. Monk
55. Philosopher
56. Ascendant Divine
57. Tinkerer
58. Cleric
59. Dervish
60. Swashbuckler
61. Vampire Hunter
62. Dark Cultist
63. Dwarf
64. Dragon Priestess
65. Totem Warrior
66. Knight
67. Dread Knight
68. Ancient Oak
69. Priest


Honestly I don't think my final rendition of the list will look exactly like this, as my opinion of characters change almost every game, as new things always happen. But generally I think this what the list will look like.
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Chris Smith
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Pretty good list. Looks like your group really values craft characters and spells. I can't disagree, but I know some groups would have a lot more strength based characters near the top of the list.

The Leprechaun sticks out to me. Why is he such a good character in your opinion? If I recall, he starts with 5 gold and 2 spells, and he can teleport on a 6. I supposed he can make a run through the City early in the game. Is that it, or am I missing something?

Cheers!

Chris
 
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Derek Dyer
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Anything that gives you control over where you are going is extremely powerful.
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Schyler Love
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Thanks for commenting! Yeah, as a general rule of thumb for our group, Renewable spells are the most valued ability, followed by abilities to gain gold (or start with gold) and then high base strength/movement options. But obviously abilities get much more in depth than that. But the reason I place the Leprechaun so high on the list, is primarily due to the ability you seem to have forgotten. He gains 3 Gold each time he lands on a woods space. His teleportation on a 6 roll, as Derek Dyer mentioned enhances his aforementioned ability, and is just all around a very strong ability. The reason we as a group value gold so much is the insane power of the Flail, Spellbook and Warhorse. All which can be purchased in the City expansion.

Looking forward to your reply, as I would love to continue conversing about the strategic possibilities of this game!

Also Derek, was wondering what character you think has the best movement options derived from an ability. For me its the Spider Queen, since she can revisit spaces with ease, and in addition when she rolls off a crawler token she can add or decrease the value by one.

But the Spy is also really good.
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Chris Smith
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You're right, I forgot about that 3 gold in the Woods ability.

Unfortunately, I have a very small group that plays Talisman about 3-4 times a year. Mostly it's my brother, my Dad, my nephew and me. We are definitely prone to "group think". A good example is how we value gold. We've played a LOT of Talisman over the years, starting way back in the mid 80s. In second edition, gold was good for 2 things: healing lives and buying an axe at the Village so you could get to the middle region.

I don't think we've ever used the City board to it's full advantage, even back then. Nowadays I see one of us occasionally go into the City on a shopping spree if we happened to get a ton of gold, but the City is definitely underutilized.

For example, we had a game just last weekend with the City and the Dungeon boards. For much of the game I had 5-6 gold, but it never occurred to me to go to the city to get one of the items you mentioned, despite being the Warlock. Near the end of the game, Dad went in to get to the dock space so he could get to the Middle region, but that was it.

In fact, I don't think the Flail has EVER been purchased in any of our games. Crazy, I know. Occasionally I've seen someone go for the ring/spellbook, but that's about it.

On the subject of movement abilities, I think they are some of the most powerful in the game. Second edition had the Centaur, who could add up to 2 to his movement rolls, and the horse and cart, which used to allow you to add 1 to your movement rolls (in addition to infinite carrying capacity). I believe the old Amazon and Philosopher had good movement abilities too. I can't remember if the revised 4th versions kept those abilities.

Just out of curiosity, how do you play the Warrants? Do you have to land on the space they are on by exact count? We've never used them much because giving up trophies for gold seems crazy when you can get stats for them. It also seems crazy to have to land on the Warrant space by exact count, and then be forced to trek all the way through the City afterward, but that's probably group think again.

Cheers!

Chris
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Derek Dyer
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Quote:
Also Derek, was wondering what character you think has the best movement options derived from an ability. For me its the Spider Queen, since she can revisit spaces with ease, and in addition when she rolls off a crawler token she can add or decrease the value by one.
I haven't played with the Spider Queen, I don't have the last 4 expansions. The way her ability is worded is interesting, and I think would take actually playing with it to get a solid feel for it.

What I've found the most advantageous is one of the cards (I wanna say I have 3 with the expansions I have) that allow you to stop anywhere in your movement.

The Spy is pretty good. Whenever anyone discovers a Strength/Craft Pool, or excellent item they can't use due to alignment, just hop right over there and snatch it up.

Without getting the characters out and looking, I'd probably have to go with Leprechaun though. Become Evil and burn through a lot of Fate. Grab Lucky and/or Luna to get ridiculous, which isn't hard to do as you can stock up gold pretty fast.
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Schyler Love
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I definitely recommend picking up the expansions. My personal favorite addition is the Cataclysm, as it removes a lot of guaranteed opportunities on the map. The Graveyard no longer benefits evil characters, while still being a hindrance to characters of good alignment. In addition it puts an increased value on life. As healing at the Chapel and Castle is no longer available. Now rather, the best place to heal is the Oasis or traveling to the Highlands Waterfall. Consequently it makes characters with abilities to heal much better, such as the Troll's regenerative ability. Spider Queen comes with the Woodlands, which I would recommend getting after purchasing the City, Highlands and Dungeon. But before any other expansions.
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A. B.
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Why is the ancient oak so far? At first glance he seems quite strong for inexperienced players like me
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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dukeadam wrote:
Why is the ancient oak so far? At first glance he seems quite strong for inexperienced players like me

Pros:
*highest Life Value of any character
*can replenish Life/Fate
*can switch around STR/CFT
Cons:
*you can only switch STR/CFT at start of turn (likely before you know what you might be fighting)
*Cannot use Weapons or Armor

It's the weapon/armor thing that drops him so far. There are some great items in the expansions, and not being able to use them is a BIG downside. And the upsides aren't big enough to make up for it.
 
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A. B.
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And Dark Cultist? She seems overpowered with the ability to upgrade her stara with each kill.
 
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Grarrrg Grarrrgowski
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dukeadam wrote:
And Dark Cultist? She seems overpowered with the ability to upgrade her stara with each kill.


I would assume a bit too luck dependent (and the 1 Fate does NOT help).
You need to be winning fights to upgrade, and even if you win you'd prefer to roll certain numbers more than others.
So if you get on a streak where Enemies aren't showing up, or where you just can't win, she does nothing. And when you do win, you don't have enough Fate to risk rerolling a less favorable result (yay, another Gold).

If she lucky, she's great and nigh unstoppable.
If she's unlucky, meh.
 
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Plaid Dragon
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I shared a statistical spreadsheet compilation (actually two of them) with BGG on this forum.

The sheet was based on weighting all of a characters base attributes as well as their special abilities. The weight of skills and such is based as much on pure statistics, combined with input of other BGGr's who've commented in my threads, as well as my own experiences through hundreds of play-throughs.

Your top 10 is fairly different from my own:

Yours:
Alchemist
Wizard
Prophetess
Sprite
Conjurer
Warlock
Sage
Magus
Fire Wizard
Leprechaun


Mine:

Alchemist
Arcane Scion
Bounty Hunter
Scavenger
Warlock
Cat Burgler
Mutant
Vampiress
Jin Blooded
Doomsayer

The bolded listings are the only ones we share. I think all can agree that the alchemist is the most OP character in the game. However I'd respectfully disagree with a few of your others.

Sprite:
- Starts with 2 spells.
- Replenish to 2 spells total at any time.
- May evade anything in the "Woods" or "Forest".

Though her spell replenish IS super powerful, it can stall if you get a couple of duds and/or get good spells you want to hold onto for the right occasion.

Her worst drawback however is that starting strength of 1. The main board as well as the highlands are both very strength centric. She will lose a lot of combats at the start.

In addition, the advent of the Woodlands has made fate a much more important resource. A starting value of 1 is a serious handicap.

Over-all she isn't terrible but at the same time is no world killer.

Sage:
- Start with 1 spell.
- Replenish to 1 spell total start of turn only.
- May always look at top card of adv or spell deck.
- May reroll your movement die once.

He is a lot more prone to get saddled with a bad spell than the sprite and thus may not be able to use his spell cycling. This is salvaged slightly by the ability to see the top spell on the deck, thus letting him know if he needs to cycle or not.

Re-rolling a movement die IS very good; however, this and his other abilities also put him as more middle of the road rather than one of the greats.

Your experiences may obviously differ from my conclusions and that's fine. I'm just offering the opportunity for further thought on the matter.
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Rauli Kettunen
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My top-10 (alphabetical):

Alchemist, 6 wins, 7 losses
Amazon 8-13
Elf 9-16
Gladiator 8-13
Gypsy 9-12
Rogue 7-6
Tavern Maid 4-5
Troll 9-16
Valkyrie 6-7
Warlock 12-7

Yes, Elf and Troll have the best win-loss of base game characters.

Knocking at the door: Assassin, Dark Cultist, Merchant, Monk, Sage and Thief (all with identical 8-17 record in 25 appearances)

Sprite languishes toward the bottom with her 1-12 record. Still not as bad as the Priest and his 1-24, but getting there.
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I believe in a thing called Death
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[q="Dam the Man"]My top-10 (alphabetical):

Alchemist, 6 wins, 7 losses
Amazon 8-13
Elf 9-16
Gladiator 8-13
Gypsy 9-12
Rogue 7-6
Tavern Maid 4-5
Troll 9-16
Valkyrie 6-7
Warlock 12-7

Hey Rauli, could you possibly provide a link of your latest character analysis showing Win/Loss and any other information you record? I'm attempting to revamp the weakest characters to put em back in the running and I am trying to gather as much apdata as possible.
 
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Rauli Kettunen
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Haven't gotten around to updating my Statistics thread and don't really keep them anywhere but on own comps, but I'll drop you a GM, let me know your email, I can send the text file with win-loss and other random stats (Reaper kills, Toadings, Horrible Black Voids, number of cards drawn, rounds game lasted, etc.)
 
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