Bojan Prakljacic
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Hello, this is my first post in this part of the BGG forum so bare with me.

Recently I have been working on simple game that uses minimum of components, some D6 dices in various colors, one board and simple sheet of paper also in various colors.

To try this game you will need to print this board on regular paper and use it as a pad to play on it. Dices of various colors you probably already have, if you don't I'm sure you can get them easily from anywhere.

So, this is the board:



Those 3x3 spaces on the left are called Big Court. Those 2 spaces of 2x2 are called Little Courts.

Components needed for playtest (game for 2 to 4 players):

- board
- 16 white D6 dices
- 1 token of any kind (representing emperor)
- 6 red D6 dices
- 6 blue D6 dices
- 6 green D6 dices
- 6 yellow D6 dices
- 4 pieces of paper in the size of a regular card in red, blue, green and yellow color

Game setup:

Players will split 16 white dices between themselves and roll them all, then they will randomly fill the spaces of the Little and Big Court on the board with them as they see fit. Token representing the Emperor is always placed in the middle of the 3x3 Big Court space.
They will get something like this:



After that, each player will take 4 dices of their preferred color and roll them all in the same time. They will place them on the piece of the paper of their color which represents their house of influence.

Game rules:

Going by the established turn order each player during his turn can do one of these actions:

- He can use a die of his color to place it inside the 2x2 space of the Little Court by pushing all dices from one row or column with his die, from left to right, or from right to left, top to bottom, etc, as long he is pushing a die that has a lower value than the die he is using to push.

Here is the example how green player is pushing the column from the top, and scoring 7 points by pushing white die with value of 3 downward which also indirectly is pushing a white die with result of 6 outside of the Little Court.



By pushing out the 6 value die over the + symbol, that die also have a new value of +1 (7). If he was pushing out some die over the - symbol, that die would have its value subtracted by -1 (to minimum of 0)

Also, player can't push dices of his color outside of the Little Court, either directly or indirectly.

Other players can push out color dices that belongs to other players. Here is the example:



Blue player is indirectly pushing out the Green player's die, scoring 5 points (due to pushing it over + symbol). Consequentially, Green player is getting his die back to his pool (he must re-roll it immediately and put it on his sheet). Green player will also get +1 point because his die was pushed over + symbol.
If the die was pushed over - symbol, blue player would get [green die value -1] worth of points, while green player would have his total score lowered by -1.

- Another action that player can do with his color die is to simply replace any other die with his color die as long their values are equal. In that process player will not score any points, but he will be able to add one new die of his color to his dice pool (into his house of influence). New die is rolled immediately, and added to his pool. This is called assassination. You can also assassinate your dices but it will have a negative impact on your score. For instance, if you 'kill' your die of value of 3, you will lose 3 points from your current score.
When you assassinate a die that belongs to other player, instead of going back to his dice pool, that die will be set aside. He will be able to bring it back to his pool, but for that he will need to assassinate some other die.



One of the winning conditions is to have more points than other players at the end of the game.

Another winning condition is to push Emperor from the Big Court (3x3 space) outside, directly or indirectly, using a die of your color. Player who manage to do that is the winner no matter of his previous score.

But, here is the catch - players can push their dices inside the Big Court only if they have at least 2 dices of their color occupying at least one Little Court.
If there is at least 2 dices of their color in the Little Court at the beginning of their turn then they have gained the right to place dices inside the Big Court. So, they can start working on pushing the Emperor out. Also, any die pushed outside the Big Court will score points for that player (but no + or - additions).

In the big Court players can push dices of their color, but they can't push color dices of other players, directly or indirectly!
If they want to push the Emperor directly, they can do that only with a 6 value die.

Maximum dices one player can have during the game is 6 at the beginning! (they start with 4). It is possible to increase that number*

* When one player manage to place all 4 of his dices in one of the little courts, he will immediately gain 2 more dices that will not go into his dice pool, but they will be set aside.

Game ends when:

1. One player managed to push the Emperor (or Shogun) outside of the Big Court (he wins instantly no matter the points)

2.The moment one player has used all his dices or is unable to do anything else with them during his turn. Every player will do one more action (if he can)and then final scoring can start.



Each player that has his dices inside the Big Court will add their values to his final score.

Player who has the most points wins. If there is a tie, then they can also add values of the dices from the Little Court. If there is a still a tie, then player with more 5 or 6 value dices in the both courts is the winner. If there is a still a tie, then they can fight each other to the death, idk...

Special rule addition:

If player had all 4 dices in his House (on his card, as a part of his dice pool), and someone manage to push one of his dices that is already in Little or Big Court, due to not been able to place that dice to his filled pool of max. 4, he will lose that die completely (it goes out of the game)



I would need some feedback after you do some testing, and ideas to improve. Thx.

Game is still under some work...


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Bojan Prakljacic
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Additional rule:

If someone push your die out of the Little or Big court, and your sheet is already filled with 4 dices, your die can't get back to your house, instead it is removed from the game (you lose a die).

Here is the card sheet that I call 'House':



There are 4 cards like this in Green, Blue, Yellow and Red color. You use them to place your dices on it.
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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Here is also a video of the game presentation.



I have two corrections about video though since it is posted before I had some rules changed.

1. If someone assassinate your die it doesn't go outside the game, it goes back to your bag (not the dice pool). So, to bring that die into play you will need to assassinate someone else.

2. When one player can't do any of his actions due to lack of dices or values of dices that he can use, then game will end, but every other player still has one more turn to play (if he can) and then scoring starts.
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Bojan Prakljacic
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Think to add a new rule: Re-train a die

It would be possible to do but only with dices that has a value of 1.
You re-roll that die, take the new value into your dice pool, but you have to pay that new value with your points. So, if you convert 1 into 4, you would lose 4 points.

It would give more options to the player since now he has 3 possible actions to chose from each turn. And more options is always good.

It will prolong games a bit though.

But, so far, everything is quite thematic, although abstract i nature.

You are sending your guys into small courts to push others out, you are getting influence there. And since you can push even the higher value die indirectly, it has a feel of using other people from the court to make a bad name for higher ups which removes them from position (scandals). Of course, opposition can do the same to you. :]

Then assassinations. You remove a guy with same strength, put your guy in his place and then you fill up your ranks. I can;t express how good timed assassination can be crucial in this game. And no one is safe!

Finally, you can re-train your people. It will cost you, but you need better assassins and politicians to work for you...

All that time you are keeping an aye on what other players have in their Houses and where are they trying to gain influence. If you are engaged too much in personal wars with one player, both of you may find out that the third guy used a chance to gain influence while you two were busy. How thematic! :}

 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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After some more extensive play-testing I've decided to add a new rule:

New win condition: when you reach 80 points!

Also, some of the people I have play-tested this with told me that I should make Shogun more important figure during the game. My idea so far is to give him ability to be able to push other player indirectly.

As stated in the main rules you can push Shogun (or the Emperor) indirectly
using only dices of your color, or those white neutral dices. To push him directly you need a die with the value of 6.

Now, since other players can block rows or columns for you in the Big Court considering you can't push them directly or indirectly, with this new rule additions you can actually use Shogun to push them! Naturally it will cost you - a 6 value die. SO with the Shogun in front of you, you are able now to clear the path.

I think it is a good idea.
 
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patrick mullen
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I am confused about your pool - when do you increase it (from 4 to 5 or 6)? You state that "When one player manage to place all 4 of his dices in one of the little courts, he will immediately gain 2 more dices that will not go into his dice pool, but they will be set aside." But what happens with those dice you set aside? I didn't see anywhere else in the rules where you use set aside dice, only ones from pool.

Also, the rules would be a little clearer if you stuck to consistent terminology. Example: "If player had all 4 dices in his House (on his card, as a part of his dice pool)," it would be better to define the House early on, and then just use House throughout the rules to mean the dice pool.

This game sounds very interesting and I hope to give it a try sometime soon. I do worry about the luck factor. With only 4 dice, I could see one player getting really unlucky, and rolling low when everyone else rolls high, and then having few options during the game to make purchase.
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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Hi, saluk, thank you for pointing that out. it seams I forgot to write how do you introduce the rest of your dices to the game.

So, this is the thing:
All players have 6 dices, they take 4, roll them together and place their values on the sheet that represents their house. 2 dices that are left, they place aside.

During the game, when the player uses his 'assassination' action (replacing a die of same value on the board) they place the die on the space where they 'killed' someone's die, and then take one of those set aside, re-roll it, and place on their sheet.
That is the common way to add new dices to your dice pool.

The only other way do gain some new dices is if you manage to fill one of the small courts with dices of your color. You immediately gain 2 new dices which you then can place on your House sheet, or set aside.


EDIT:

It seams I haven't forgot to write that, it is in the first post, you just have missed it:

Another action that player can do with his color die is to simply replace any other die with his color die as long their values are equal. In that process player will not score any points, but he will be able to add one new die of his color to his dice pool (into his house of influence). New die is rolled immediately, and added to his pool. This is called assassination. You can also assassinate your dices but it will have a negative impact on your score. For instance, if you 'kill' your die of value of 3, you will lose 3 points from your current score.
When you assassinate a die that belongs to other player, instead of going back to his dice pool, that die will be set aside. He will be able to bring it back to his pool, but for that he will need to assassinate some other die.



Also, here is the latest rule book written in Word, so you might check that out, its only 3 pages long and covers all the things you might encounter during the play-test:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23200308/Osu-Dice_rulebo...
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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Just to add that, after current play-tests that I do inside the Tabletop Simulator with random ppl, some changes to the rules happened. They are added into Word document from the link above.

These are the changes:

Pushing a die on a + or - sign outside the court is allowing player to choose to increase or decrees on of his dices from his current dice pool by 1.

While, if player's die is pushed outside the court and lands on + or - sign , that player MUST increase or decrease one of his dices from his current dice pool by 1. If player doesn't have any dices in his dice pool, he will have to decrees his score by the value of his dice that was pushed outside the court.
 
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Matt D
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8Oj4N wrote:
Just to add that, after current play-tests that I do inside the Tabletop Simulator with random ppl, some changes to the rules happened. They are added into Word document from the link above.

These are the changes:

Pushing a die on a + or - sign outside the court is allowing player to choose to increase or decrees on of his dices from his current dice pool by 1.

While, if player's die is pushed outside the court and lands on + or - sign , that player MUST increase or decrease one of his dices from his current dice pool by 1. If player doesn't have any dices in his dice pool, he will have to decrees his score by the value of his dice that was pushed outside the court.


Whoa. These are huge changes.

So to confirm:

If I use a three to push a two and it pushes an opponent's six off the board onto a "-", then he is taking 6 points off his score if he doesn't have a die? And if he only has a 1 and therefore cannot reduce by 1...does that also trigger the minus 6 points?

And then I get to choose one of my remaining dice and whether to increase or decrease by one?

I'm not sure that these improvements help to be honest with you. I liked the extra bit of strategy in making a placement such that I knew that I'd likely get a point if/when someone pushed me off.

And it sort of renders the +/- of the item useless. If this is the rule, I'd consider changing those symbols to something else.

Or, really I'd consider putting both set of rules in, one as a variant.

I see reasons for both sides and I think both would work well for some people.
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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Had to do changes since in 2 player game, player that has better dices always win. This way, at least you can do something to improve your chances.

Now doing tests with these new changes to see how it goes. Fact remains - if I Don't come up with a way to balance 2 player game, game is broken.


There is another way how it can be fixed:

- everything stays the same
- after rolling 16 white (neutral dices) players must fill the small courts first by dice values from 1 to 4, the fill the rest or
- players roll their dices before they roll 16 white dices, so they can plan (to some extent) how to fill courts


EDIT: Ok, this thing:
- after rolling 16 white (neutral dices) players must fill the small courts first by dice values from 1 to 4, the fill the rest

HELPED A LOT! XD

No need to change rules, this simple setup makes all balanced again.

There is one more problem, and that is, there is not 'catch up' mechanic of any kind. So now I'm thinking of adding cards which will allow players to do some other things that can help them gain a lead.


 
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Matt D
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8Oj4N wrote:

- everything stays the same
- after rolling 16 white (neutral dices) players must fill the small courts first by dice values from 1 to 4, the fill the rest or
- players roll their dices before they roll 16 white dices, so they can plan (to some extent) how to fill courts


EDIT: Ok, this thing:
- after rolling 16 white (neutral dices) players must fill the small courts first by dice values from 1 to 4, the fill the rest

HELPED A LOT! XD


Have you considered, then, making the 8 small court dice just four sided dice? That would alleviate the need to sort through them -- just keep the white neutral dice for the shogun's court as d6.

8Oj4N wrote:

There is one more problem, and that is, there is not 'catch up' mechanic of any kind. So now I'm thinking of adding cards which will allow players to do some other things that can help them gain a lead.


I haven't played nearly as many games as you have, but in the ones that I played it seems that things were either pretty close or people were in alternate goals - one was trying to push the shogun, the other get points. So not really an issue for catchup if they are going in different directions...
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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Custom dices for the Small Courts... Mmmmmm....
Custom dices are always more expensive then the normal ones. I would really love for this game to be really cheap and easily acquired by anyone.

Btw, last night we played (just for fun and testing :} ) with this rule:

Push a die on +, your score is + value of that die
Push a die on -, your score is - value of that die

It brought so much to the game! You had to be more strategic. Now you are presented with one more dilemma while playing. I loved it, and ppl who played that night also loved it. So, I'll continue with that new rule to see how will it affect the game in whole.

But... It seams I'm really close to crack this nut. :>

So, here is the new rule book ver. 0.09. XD

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/23200308/Osu-Dice_rulebo...
 
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Matt D
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I'll see if I can get on over the next few days to help play test.

And while agreed that d4 would be different than a d6, I think that:
A) most gamers have plenty of d4 around when you want to go PnP
B) d4 is so commonly used in games these days that it's not a hugely expensive item. A little more than d6 from a few places I looked, but it would make it way less fiddly. If you want the outer court to be 1-4, but use d6--do you reroll dice if you don't have enough 1-4 by chance to fill it?
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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I think, in the end, what I need is really good mathematician to make a projection of some dice values for the Small Courts and how they interact with each others depending on scoring system used...

 
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Rolf van Soelen
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Hey Bojan,

I downloaded OSU DICE and thought it a little interesting game with lots of potential…...
So I brainstormed an evening, and came up with some alternative rules. I uploaded them to my dropbox https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11926290/TABLETOP/OSU%20...

You can download them and take a look. It’s a zipfile, with 3 jpg in it (rules1.jpg, rules2.jpg and rules3.jpg). The adjusted gameboard that I refer to, can be downloaded here https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11926290/TABLETOP/OSU%20...
I also have a suggestion there how to set the dice in TTS.
Btw, I can send you my json file (with adjusted gameboard, diceruler, etc) if you would like to.

Oke, I hope this input will provide you with some fresh ideas, directly or indirectly!


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Bojan Prakljacic
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I have checked your rule set and they seem very interesting. I will test them with my usual play-testing group in TTS and see how it will go.

That 'attack a die' thing might be too much, since I would really love for this game to be and stay extra simple and play fast.

I agree that higher dices must have some kind of a 'protective mechanic', but also a workaround, so they can still be pushed. I wonder how much impact would have a rule that you can't have two dices of the same value in the same row or column? Will have to check that too.

Thank you for advice. If the feedback comes positive and this goes through I'll have to contact you and add you as a co-designer of Osu Dice! :}
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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Definite rule book, last iteration is here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/75sh9zkzhuxyykc/osu-dice_rulebook....

Thanks to various ppl from the TTS community game has flourished since the first steps.
 
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