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Subject: New mediocre expansion requires you buy the card pack too. rss

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Will Baker
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The card pack was a must buy for me but I was kind of irritated that once again the cards are missing from the new expansion. For $55 still no cards in an expansion is ridiculous. Looking at the rather small box of miniatures and a card set that cost me over $80 all together. With a ton of heroes now does it seem to anyone else many of the heroes look the same? I really miss the classic heroes from the original game. Anyways, thought folks would like to know what to expect.

Final verdict: more of the same and it's going to cost you!
 
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Chad Egbert
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rvrratt wrote:
The card pack was a must buy for me but I was kind of irritated that once again the cards are missing from the new expansion. For $55 still no cards in an expansion is ridiculous. Looking at the rather small box of miniatures and a card set that cost me over $80 all together. With a ton of heroes now does it seem to anyone else many of the heroes look the same? I really miss the classic heroes from the original game. Anyways, thought folks would like to know what to expect.

Final verdict: more of the same and it's going to cost you!


Don't buy them if you aren't happy with them. I for one am excited about the card pack and new heroes. Once the pack is bought then you can pick and choose what heroes you want.
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Kevin Outlaw
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This is one of those situations where I genuinely can't see what people are complaining about.

When Mighty Heroes came out, and it didn't include cards, I was annoyed. I didn't want to use the app, and while I scanned the cards out of the rules it wasn't ideal for me. I was one of the many people urging everyone to contact GW to release cards, because I thought GW had made a bad decision.

Fast-forward a few months, and GW have released the card pack we all wanted. It includes 44 heroes, and in the UK is available for £12, which is actually less than the cost of buying them in the app. It even includes the battlemage card and the nurgle lord that was from White Dwarf.

With those cards, it's no longer necessary to purchase anything in the app, and you have every card for every hero released with two exceptions (noted below).

At the same time, GW release a new hero pack. It contains FIVE heroes, yet is the same price as the Mighty Heroes pack which only had four, and all of the heroes already exist in the card pack. Furthermore, it contains another female character.

So, with these two releases GW have pretty much addressed every complaint and concern I have heard so far:

1. Lack of female characters
2. Expensive (yes, the expansion is still expensive, but it's a significant reduction over usual GW prices)
3. No physical cards
4. Lack of support going forwards

Now, if the Arcane Heroes were brand new heroes, then I would expect them to have hero cards, but they are heroes that are already available in the card pack and in the app. They are cards that pretty much everyone interested in this game already owns through the app, or will certainly buy in physical format, so there is absolutely no need to increase the price of the expansion box by including the cards again. It makes sense, just like it makes sense not to include Silver Tower cards in the Gorechosen box.

And it would be far more annoying if they excluded those cards from the card pack and added them into the miniatures pack instead, because that would be forcing people to buy miniatures they may already have. Remember - all of these models exist in the AoS line, so putting all of the cards into a card pack is actually the best option for many people who already have collections of miniatures.

If they create new heroes in the future, and don't include cards in the box, I will express my disappointment again; but as of now, this situation resolves things neatly.

My one complaint at the moment is that the hero card pack does not include the branchwych, which is either an oversight, or due to the fact the sylvan hero came out after the pack went to print (most likely the latter). The White Dwarf isn't included either, but he was a magazine special, so that's more understandable.

Overall, I feel like we've been listened to, and a card pack is probably the best solution possible.

As for having too many heroes... Yes, I think we have plenty now, and I am awaiting a full expansion to have a new realm to explore. However, it makes sense for GW to pump out heroes - they are aiming at those people with big collections. If I have a big orruk army, and GW keep putting out new characters that allow me to use those miniatures in this game, I am more likely to give this game a shot. I don't think it's intended to replace full expansions later on, it's just a way to broaden the market; and as everybody has their favourite races, it makes sense to have all those options.

Furthermore, hero packs with very different characters in are great for the painters. I get bored painting the same thing over and over again, so a box of heroes is great.

Wow... that's a long post.
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aris da
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its a classic ripoff ....buy this and oh... u need to buy that to play it too...and... just give me ur goddamn money... games workshop has a ridiculous policy and what annoys me is that people seem excited that they are getting ripped of
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JD Snider
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kovaltio wrote:
its a classic ripoff ....buy this and oh... u need to buy that to play it too...and... just give me ur goddamn money... games workshop has a ridiculous policy and what annoys me is that people seem excited that they are getting ripped of


I don't get what you're talking about. Buy Silver Tower and you have the full game. Want more heroes, buy the card pack. Want more models to paint, buy some hero packs. I see no 'tricks' forcing you to buy anything. Looks like a basic base game/expansion format to me, and is hardly unique to Games Workshop. And actually I love the card pack; as Kevin pointed out it means I DON'T have to buy the models (which cost a heck of a lot) and can just use figures I have if I want.
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
With those cards, it's no longer necessary to purchase anything in the app, and you have every card for every hero released with two exceptions (noted below).


If you look at the abilities in the Hero Card set vs. the app, several heroes are actually quite different. The Saurus Oldblood and Skink Starpriest were the first ones I noticed (love me some lizardmen!), with the Oldblood having one different ability and a different method of gaining Renown, for example.

Others seem to have received wording updates for clarity, or even nerfs in some cases (Cogsmith and Knight Venator). I only purchased a few of the app heroes so I don't know the full extent of the differences, but I am happy that I can now run a full party of four lizardmen and have them all be somewhat distinct.
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Kevin Outlaw
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Corphus wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
With those cards, it's no longer necessary to purchase anything in the app, and you have every card for every hero released with two exceptions (noted below).


If you look at the abilities in the Hero Card set vs. the app, several heroes are actually quite different. The Saurus Oldblood and Skink Starpriest were the first ones I noticed (love me some lizardmen!), with the Oldblood having one different ability and a different method of gaining Renown, for example.

Others seem to have received wording updates for clarity, or even nerfs in some cases (Cogsmith and Knight Venator). I only purchased a few of the app heroes so I don't know the full extent of the differences, but I am happy that I can now run a full party of four lizardmen and have them all be somewhat distinct.


Some of the heroes got updates in the FAQ (the venator got his agility nerfed, for example). I assume they rolled those changes into the new card pack, which is why they are slightly different.

I've never owned a skink model, but always loved them, so I'm looking forward to getting that!
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Quiarcus
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The other thing to bare in mind is that this isn't like your standard boardgame. People may already have many of the figures for the heroes for the Age of Sigmar wargame. Having to buy a boxset just to get the necessary cards - and therefore a double of the mini they already have - would just frustrate them. Yes, it sucks that you have to buy the hero box and the cards to get the full usage, but I think it's probably the best way of handling it for now.
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John Middleton
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GW could mail everyone on Earth a free mini and people would complain about it.
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Kevin Outlaw
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DegenerateElite wrote:
GW could mail everyone on Earth a free mini and people would complain about it.


Bet it would be a bloody stormcast eternal.

Grumble grumble grumble.

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Will Baker
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First off you fail to acknowledge that the heroes released are pretty much the same.

Second you fail to acknowledge $55 for 4 models and no cards is not a good deal. You have to buy the card pack to use these models.

Are you truly excited for the heroes you are getting?

Stop, take the fan boy hat off and look at this from a consumer point of view.

I do see they released the card pack because of the out cry was good. Yet they still released another expansion with no cards. That's just dumb.
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azza rein
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rvrratt wrote:


Second you fail to acknowledge $55 for 4 models and no cards is not a good deal. You have to buy the card pack to use these models.



Have you seen how much they cost individually? (5 models by the way)

Just because you bought a board game doesn't mean you are suddenly entitled to massive discounts on models.

Yes, cards would have been very good on them, but GW seems to be taking a risk-averse approach with expansions to Silver Tower, and are primarily catered to those who are going all-in. You can always use the app for individual heroes if you really wanted to.
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Matthew Saloff
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
My one complaint at the moment is that the hero card pack does not include the branchwych, which is either an oversight, or due to the fact the sylvan hero came out after the pack went to print (most likely the latter). The White Dwarf isn't included either, but he was a magazine special, so that's more understandable.


Does anyone know if the Branchwych card was included in a White Dwarf magazine? Even just printed on the paper like the Lord of Plagues was? I dislike the app and would like to scan it/print it off if possible.

Also, can someone point me in the direction of where I can find info on the "White Dwarf" hero? I haven't seen any info on that one. You don't mean the free Slaughterpriest, right?
 
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JD Snider
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rvrratt wrote:
First off you fail to acknowledge that the heroes released are pretty much the same.

Second you fail to acknowledge $55 for 4 models and no cards is not a good deal. You have to buy the card pack to use these models.

Are you truly excited for the heroes you are getting?

Stop, take the fan boy hat off and look at this from a consumer point of view.

I do see they released the card pack because of the out cry was good. Yet they still released another expansion with no cards. That's just dumb.


I don't think anyone is wearing a 'fan boy' hat here. People may not agree with you, but I think the responses have been pretty rational. Others just don't share you perspective.

Now I hear what you're saying, but how about this for a 'consumer point of view'? For $26 CA I get a pack containing all the information I need to play with over 40 new heroes. Some of them are similar, but there is still quite a bit of variety. And that's ALL I have to buy. I can proxy in any figures I want, without having to buy the incredibly expensive models. Seems like a pretty great deal to me.

Honestly I'm surprised Games Workshop did it this way. I think they'd make more money if they only included the cards with the models. But I for one am grateful they did it the way they did.
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Kevin Outlaw
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Mattr0polis wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
My one complaint at the moment is that the hero card pack does not include the branchwych, which is either an oversight, or due to the fact the sylvan hero came out after the pack went to print (most likely the latter). The White Dwarf isn't included either, but he was a magazine special, so that's more understandable.


Does anyone know if the Branchwych card was included in a White Dwarf magazine? Even just printed on the paper like the Lord of Plagues was? I dislike the app and would like to scan it/print it off if possible.

Also, can someone point me in the direction of where I can find info on the "White Dwarf" hero? I haven't seen any info on that one. You don't mean the free Slaughterpriest, right?


Branchwych is only in the app at the moment, unfortunately. That may change.

The white Dwarf hero is actually the White Dwarf, Grombrindl. His card was printed in the September issue of White Dwarf magazine, and there is a model for him (which is basically a repackage of the standard unforged dwarf hero).
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Well I bought the cards but won't buy the arcane heroes until next month.
However, straight up we just use the same figure for the different cards, it's a no brainer, so if your concerned about spending lots of money on characters, jut use what we all used at some stage when playing role playing games like D&D in the early days of Citadel / Games Workshop - imagination.....

Finally - we all moan about GW but we all play their games or use their figures - it's a question of balance.. I for one bought Silver Tower because I have Tzeentch daemons and will be doing stats for introducing my Lord of Change into the game.

I agree that new treasure cards and the odd tile would be great to have but I'm not sure GW will go down that route with Silver Tower, I believe they are setting up for a new warhammer quest setting....

either way - peace and enjoy the new format GW!
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quazai wrote:
kovaltio wrote:
its a classic ripoff ....buy this and oh... u need to buy that to play it too...and... just give me ur goddamn money... games workshop has a ridiculous policy and what annoys me is that people seem excited that they are getting ripped of


I don't get what you're talking about. Buy Silver Tower and you have the full game. Want more heroes, buy the card pack. Want more models to paint, buy some hero packs. I see no 'tricks' forcing you to buy anything. Looks like a basic base game/expansion format to me, and is hardly unique to Games Workshop. And actually I love the card pack; as Kevin pointed out it means I DON'T have to buy the models (which cost a heck of a lot) and can just use figures I have if I want.

The problem here is that the expansions cost 50% of the base game while giving you 5% of its content. Silver Tower is not expensive taking into account what's inside, but the prices for the hero packs (plus a card pack) seem outrageous by comparison. Sure, nobody has to buy it, but yes, it does look like the base game is a hook meant to draw more money from customers and whereas everybody what's that no other boardgame company is so blatant about it. FFG sells single figure packs, but at least they include all the cards and tokens with them.
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borsook wrote:
FFG sells single figure packs, but at least they include all the cards and tokens with them.


I'd rather have 44 hero cards I can proxy with any miniature I wish then FFG's $20 for 1 miniature model.

Of course we'll both be happier if they did both (sell the cards, and included them in the expansions as well) but I suspect they wont because they will continue to incorporate any future Age of Sigmar releases into WHQ: ST but don't want to tie themselves down for all future releases by including cards.
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Honestly, this approach from Games Workshop is actually extremely consumer FRIENDLY for them (yes I almost have trouble believing it myself). But consider the following (based on $CA and prices you can get from your local FLGS). There are three main types of people likely to be interested in purchasing these model 'expansion' packs:

1. Players of Age of Sigmar who don't care about Warhammer Quest. For them, they are saving about $38 by buying these heroes packaged vs separately. They've got themselves a great deal here (well inside the GW ecosystem at least).

2. Players of Age of Sigmar who are also interested in Warhammer Quest. Buying the hero pack and the cards together still saves them about $13 over buying just the models alone. So they still get the Age of Sigmar models for a discount, plus rules for over 35 additional heroes.

3. Boardgamers interested in only Warhammer Quest. These individuals don't care about Age of Sigmar, and therefore won't see the same value as other players if they buy the expensive GW models. But Games Workshop has actually provided them with the option of just buying the game content (i.e. hero pack) separately from their expensive line of models. They're free to proxy any other figures they wish.

So really, you're only getting burned if you don't care about Age of Sigmar, but want the matching models for Warhammer Quest. But then it's really just the high price of the Games Workshop models that gets you. Sure if would be NICE if they threw the cards in with the models, but I can understand how they might not want to sell the same content twice. And as I said in an earlier post, I'm actually surprised they went this route. It would probably be more profitable for them to only sell the cards and models together. But I for one appreciate what they've done!


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borsook wrote:

The problem here is that the expansions cost 50% of the base game while giving you 5% of its content. Silver Tower is not expensive taking into account what's inside, but the prices for the hero packs (plus a card pack) seem outrageous by comparison. Sure, nobody has to buy it, but yes, it does look like the base game is a hook meant to draw more money from customers and whereas everybody what's that no other boardgame company is so blatant about it. FFG sells single figure packs, but at least they include all the cards and tokens with them.


Expansions are always worse value than the base game. For example, in the UK, Lords of Waterdeep is around £34, and the expansion is around £26. For me, Lords of Waterdeep was the most blatant game ever in terms of expansions, because it even had spaces printed on the board for a sixth player that isn't even an option unless you buy the expansion.

For me, Silver Tower feels very complete out of the box. Apart from the slim pack of skills, the game feels like a whole product, with a very specific story and an enclosed environment. Of course, I want to expand it, but I feel like you get the full game in the box right from the start.

Now, GW have released the card pack, which in the UK is available for just £12. That's excellent value for 44 large-size cards that open up a massive selection of heroes. I have some of the necessary figures, but will also be using proxies. By paying just £12, I have more heroes than I will ever probably use; which feels like a better option than sticking two heroes in small-box expansions like FFG does with something like Descent and charging me £35 (the cost of Lair of the Wyrm on Amazon at the moment). With GW's model, I get to buy just the heroes I want, without buying an expansion I may not be interested in.

Once you have bought the cards, you can pick and choose which GW miniatures you want to buy - if you want to buy any at all. GW "hero" models are notoriously expensive, so GW has decided to start bundling some of them together to make them cheaper. Arcane Heroes gives you five heroes for around £28 in the UK, which is a considerable saving. But its just models at the end of the day; you don't need to buy them unless you like them and want to paint them. The Stormcast in the Silver Tower box will proxy perfectly for any Stormcast from the hero pack. Your Misterweaver can be a sorceress. The dwarf will substitute quite happily for any dwarf. And so on. But the hero boxes are there if you want them.

I picked up Gorechosen the other week, which is available for £28. By buying the hero cards for Silver Tower, I immediately gain access to all those Gorechosen heroes in Silver Tower. That makes Gorechosen even better value.

And then, if the rumours are true (and there is no guarantee), at some point GW is going to release another "base set" with a new environment. It will be the same sort of value as Silver Tower, and is sure to have a few more heroes in it. So, if people really don't like the idea of buying the extra heroes, or do not consider them good value, they just have to wait.
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Major Havok
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I prefer this approach of selling the entire card set separate from the models. We already proxy models anyways, so I prefer to have all of the cards in hand when we play. That is more important for us versus using the app or having the right model.
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Corphus wrote:
RedMonkeyBoy wrote:
With those cards, it's no longer necessary to purchase anything in the app, and you have every card for every hero released with two exceptions (noted below).


If you look at the abilities in the Hero Card set vs. the app, several heroes are actually quite different. The Saurus Oldblood and Skink Starpriest were the first ones I noticed (love me some lizardmen!), with the Oldblood having one different ability and a different method of gaining Renown, for example.

Others seem to have received wording updates for clarity, or even nerfs in some cases (Cogsmith and Knight Venator). I only purchased a few of the app heroes so I don't know the full extent of the differences, but I am happy that I can now run a full party of four lizardmen and have them all be somewhat distinct.


Just an update on this - GW announced an app update today that brings all the app cards in-line with the rules on the new printed cards.

https://www.facebook.com/GWWarhammerAgeofSigmar/

 
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Christian Lindberg
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on the contarary Actually excellent value for money, you get stats for a platoon of heroes in the card pack, for quite cheap price and you can proxy all you want.

In the figure pack you get 5 figs for a good price and you can also use them in age of Sigmar, where rules are online for free!!
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dr dull wrote:


In the figure pack you get 5 figs for a good price and you can also use them in age of Sigmar, where rules are online for free!!


Agreed. And this is something I think some people might not be aware of - there is loads of Age of Sigmar content for free . Not just the main rules, but rules for all the units and heroes too.

If you go to the Games Workshop site, and click on the page for the (for example) Skink Priest, there is a seal on the lower right of the page saying "our customer service offer" with a link to all the rules for that figure in Age of Sigmar for free.

Of course, that also means you could actually use any damned figures you want and play AoS for free.

Sorry, bit of a tangent.

Back on point - in the UK, you can get the Silver Tower cards for £12. I had a small amount of loyalty points with a site I use all the time, so got my cards for less than £10 delivered. I'm very happy with that.
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