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Cris C
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Just a couple simple additions, I can't believe completed regions aren't apart of end game scoring. I have read and re-read the rules to check for it, but I thought it would be a no-brainer to have end game scoring include completed areas.

So end game scoring is basically JUST scrolls. I get that scrolls in completed areas double those points, but why is there no VP for completed regions except for in those cases when a scoring tiles specifically states it.

Why not add 1VP per completed region? It could be as simple as this or as complex as:

2VP per completed region - unless region is one of the scoring tiles then 1 VP. So if one of the scoring tiles is the completed lake tile (2VP for each tile apart of a completed lake), then all completed lakes are worth 1 VP at game end. mountains and fields are 2VP per complete.

Another way would be to say 1VP for completed regions consisting of 1 tile. 2VP for regions completed made up of 3-4 tiles. 3VP for regions completed consisting of 4+ tiles.

I also think Fields should be considered completed if they are enclosed by water, mountain, or roads!

I don't know if someone can tell me why roads shouldn't close a field in, but I don't see a reason right now why they shouldn't and think it makes tremendous sense to include end-game scoring of completed landscapes and consider fields completed if enclosed by roads.

What say you!?
 
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Ben Bateson
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I think you've played too much Carcassonne.
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Tilou
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It's the whole idea of the game that there are no fixed awards...
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Cris C
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ousgg wrote:
I think you've played too much Carcassonne.


Ummmm, I have played a handful of times. I just think that you inevitably create completed terrains, and also adding as a scoring condition might add to the spread of point options.
 
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Cris C
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tilouboy wrote:
It's the whole idea of the game that there are no fixed awards...


The WHOLE idea of the game? really?

You do know the 4 scoring conditions and how often they will occur at the beginning of the game. You also can target scrolls throughout the game.

This would simply add to the spread of possible scoring options. You will inevitably have at least 1 completed terrain type and I doubt it would draw too much focus away from other scoring dynamics. It's simply a small addition to end game scoring.

 
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Ben Bateson
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GrittyWillis wrote:
I just think that you inevitably create completed terrains, and also adding as a scoring condition might add to the spread of point options.


How would you balance it? I've seen winning scores in this game of nearly 100 and others of about 40. In some of these games then completing regions would be vastly overpowered; in others a waste of effort.

And, I definitely don't make any effort to complete regions if there is no scoring requisite to do so.
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Cris C
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ousgg wrote:
GrittyWillis wrote:
I just think that you inevitably create completed terrains, and also adding as a scoring condition might add to the spread of point options.


How would you balance it? I've seen winning scores in this game of nearly 100 and others of about 40. In some of these games then completing regions would be vastly overpowered; in others a waste of effort.

And, I definitely don't make any effort to complete regions if there is no scoring requisite to do so.


Exactly! You don't make an effort now because it only matters IF there is a tile that says you get points for lakes etc.

NOW you have a small incentive to pay MORE attention to how you situate your tiles. Like I said - I don't think folks will focus on this, and since it does not draw too much attention away from the base game it's already a fairly balanced addition.

I personally just think that a small emphasis should be made to those who happen to complete a terrain. Not a big bonus, but a little something for your efforts. Even if you don't pay attention, but happen to complete a couple pieces of terrain. Thats cool!

I really don't see how it would be VASTLY overpowered. I have yet to see people complete a ridiculous amount of regions.

Say the tile that scores 2VP per tile of a completed lake is out. You might have 3 or 4 lakes completed at the very most. Most players might have 1 or 2 complete lakes in a 3-4 player game. If we follow the rule that those WHOLE completed pieces of terrain (not each tile) is worth 1 extra VP, it's just 1 or 2 VP....at the MOST 4 VP. Then say you have 1 mountain, thats 2VP, and maybe a field another 2 VP.

It is fairly unlikely someone would have more than 5 total completed features worth at the end of 5 or 6 rounds. let alone regions completed made up of more than 3 tiles.....

I just don't see this having a significant impact - just enough that you smile when you get a couple VP for paying attention to laying that tile right and getting a 4 tile mountain.
 
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Tilou
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There are 4 tiles that reward closed landscapes. The beauty of the game is that sometimes it matters and sometimes it doesn't. That's it.

If you want it to matter every game, well, it's your life.
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Cris C
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tilouboy wrote:
There are 4 tiles that reward closed landscapes. The beauty of the game is that sometimes it matters and sometimes it doesn't. That's it.

If you want it to matter every game, well, it's your life.


Cool, thanks for the permission
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Tilou
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My point is:
You talk about landscapes but what you propose could be applied to every other aspect of the game. When there are no tiles rewarding animals, it's frustrating to have a lot of them; the same goes for buildings, a long road or whatever.
The idea of the game is to change just that: what aspect of the game will matter in the present session.
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Ben Bateson
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GrittyWillis wrote:

NOW you have a small incentive to pay MORE attention to how you situate your tiles. Like I said - I don't think folks will focus on this


If I can make 5 points a round from your variant, then I'll be focussing on it. This will just act to the detriment of the other scoring tiles. Why would anyone NOT focus on it when they can score it every round but the others only come out three times a game?

Quote:

I personally just think that a small emphasis should be made to those who happen to complete a terrain. Not a big bonus, but a little something for your efforts. Even if you don't pay attention, but happen to complete a couple pieces of terrain. Thats cool!


If you want to reward people for not paying attention, then that's your prerogative. Doesn't sound like the sort of game I want to play.
Quote:

I really don't see how it would be VASTLY overpowered. I have yet to see people complete a ridiculous amount of regions.


I don't think you've played enough. I've seen layouts where at least 10 regions are completed in order to score the relevant tile. That's upwards of 20 points by your scoring.

Quote:
Say the tile that scores 2VP per tile of a completed lake is out. You might have 3 or 4 lakes completed at the very most. Most players might have 1 or 2 complete lakes in a 3-4 player game. If we follow the rule that those WHOLE completed pieces of terrain (not each tile) is worth 1 extra VP, it's just 1 or 2 VP....at the MOST 4 VP. Then say you have 1 mountain, thats 2VP, and maybe a field another 2 VP.


Yes, but you're judging this by WHAT HAPPENS IN THE GAME CURRENTLY. By introducing a variant, you are encouraging people to change their strategy, so I don't think you can be blase about the effect on points scoring.
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Randy Espinoza
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GrittyWillis wrote:
ousgg wrote:
I think you've played too much Carcassonne.

Ummmm, I have played a handful of times. I just think that you inevitably create completed terrains, and also adding as a scoring condition might add to the spread of point options.
You would essentially be adding a fixed fifth goal every single game, which then would make the game pretty much about that always present goal.

As somebody already mentioned: why? That kind of goes against the design direction of this game: Why are completed regions more important than the number of boats that it deserves to always be one of the goals?

I honestly think that not knowing what's valuable in the game right until the four scoring tiles are unveiled adds tons to the replayability and enjoyment of this game.
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Cris C
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Good points. You are correct, I have only played a handful of times.

10 regions would absolutely break this.
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Michal Starek
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In fact, that's what buggered me about Carcassonne... and here it's fixed.
Why on Earth should a pathway split a meadow into two, let alone mountains or lake? Do we consider real life lakes to be two bodies of water, just because there goes a bridge through the middle? o_O
 
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Cris C
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myyysha wrote:
In fact, that's what buggered me about Carcassonne... and here it's fixed.
Why on Earth should a pathway split a meadow into two, let alone mountains or lake? Do we consider real life lakes to be two bodies of water, just because there goes a bridge through the middle? o_O


Having already conceded this as being a terrible idea hahahha, I never suggested a road break up mountain and water. JUST help close in fields. The reason was that I had not seen many fields completed and thought they would be quite difficult to complete in more than one occasion, even if focusing on them.

However, having played this all of 5 times I am not experience enough to have suggested such a drastic change to the game and see why the game is as it is.

thank you for your input.
 
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Pat robertson

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If you desperately want to add in the scoring for completed regions, then just put the reward card for that in the last position and choose the other 3 at random? (there are 2 to choose from if my memory serves me correct)

P
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