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Subject: Need advice and help! (about my game Osu Dice!) rss

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Bojan Prakljacic
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I would really appreciate some advice in this matter by more wiser and experienced guys from BGG.

I have made a game that I'm calling 'Osu Dice!' (osu means 'push' in Japanese language)

During play-tests I got an overwhelming positive feedback. Who ever tried the game immediately wanted to play more, and more, and more... And everybody is telling me that I should seek publisher ASAP, that the ideas and mechanics are really innovative, but I am very suspicious. On the other side something inside me is telling me 'this is it, you finally got it!' and I would feel really bad if I let this go without getting it to some publisher.

Here is the explanation of the game:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1647174/playtesters-needed-...

This is one of those games that you have to play a bit to see what is going on. Once you go through few turns you immediately know how the game flows, but then you are struck by tactical possibilities and choices! It is simple to explain and pick up and play, but it's very cerebral. You have so many things you need to think about before making a move. On the other hand, there is some luck involved, but so far, smartest guy usually wins. Making mistakes will cost you a lot. It has that chess feel. During one test guy actually said 'check-mate! after successfully executing his blocking maneuver and won. :}

Game is also thematic, although abstract. You really feel that you are assassinating your competition and putting guys from your house into court and then going for the Shogun and the more influence in the Big Court.

I'll also post a video presentation that i have made through Tabletop Simulator the moment I have it uploaded to YouTube.


I need some thoughts from ppl that are more experienced than me to tell me if I'm delusional or is there a great game in my hands.
What should I do?

Here is the video:
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Scott Allen
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8Oj4N wrote:
...to tell me if I'm delusional or is there a great game in my hands.


Maybe both?

I have never had a game published, so I can't really speak on that. It may be a great game, but that doesn't mean it will get published.

If people enjoy playing it, great, do what you can to get more people playing it.

To me, the game looks interesting, looks good. I like the art and graphic design. What I think could be improved is maybe add a scoring track to the board and/or scoring reference on the board or player boards.

Looks good.
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Bojan Prakljacic
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Yeah, scoring boards go without the saying. Just, Tabletop Simulator has a thing called counter, so everybody is using them.
Real game would had to have at least scoring pads packed inside. But, if that is the only problematic thing of this game then I'm calling Asmodee right now LOL
 
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Scott Allen
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You may get some playtesters here if you package all the game info into a couple pdf files:
- rules
- components (boards)

That's just what all of us geeks here are used to. We want to print out the rules, print out the components on card stock or whatever. The pdf file is the universal language here.
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Bojan Prakljacic
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Well, I have put some things in the Playtesting thread.
For this game you don't need some fancy things. You can print the board and use any piece of card stock to have your dices on it.
You do need these though:

16 white dices
6 red dices (+2 optional)
6 blue dices (+2 optional)
6 green dices (+2 optional)
6 yellow dices (+2 optional)
any kind of token to represent the Shogun inside the large castle.

That is like... Bucket-load of dices.
I'm sure any self respecting geek has that much in his lair.

But you are right, I'm gonna prepare the PDF rule book and post it here.
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mark w

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The game looks very good and is worth floating around to publishers IMO. PNP seems like a good step also.

It looks like it has a good mix of luck and strategy I do not think it is the next pandemic or anything but seems like a good filler that could be made for a decent price with 12mm dice. Has a Zman vibe.

Maybe buy some bulk dice and print a few mats and cards from gamecrafter to demo
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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I can't do that. I can't print it over Game crafter or any other similar web service because I'm not from USA. I'm from the small country that is not not even in EU yet. If I would want to import something from that far just shipping would cost me like 80+ euros.

In my country people don't play board games, they just don't have that 'tradition' and education. It is very rare to find anyone interested in those kind of games. I'm living in the capital city of my country and there is not one shop where you can buy board or card games. It's that bad.

But, I have equipped myself with all things needed for home-printing and making cards. Thx to this site I know how to make prototypes and all that thing, so eventually I will do it myself. And this is not hard to make.

The hard part will be finding dices. I'll need to buy many YAMB packs lol, if I find them somewhere.
 
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Matt D
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8Oj4N wrote:
I can't do that. I can't print it over Game crafter or any other similar web service because I'm not from USA. I'm from the small country that is not not even in EU yet. If I would want to import something from that far just shipping would cost me like 80+ euros.

In my country people don't play board games, they just don't have that 'tradition' and education. It is very rare to find anyone interested in those kind of games. I'm living in the capital city of my country and there is not one shop where you can buy board or card games. It's that bad.

But, I have equipped myself with all things needed for home-printing and making cards. Thx to this site I know how to make prototypes and all that thing, so eventually I will do it myself. And this is not hard to make.

The hard part will be finding dices. I'll need to buy many YAMB packs lol, if I find them somewhere.


If you'd like a US-based fulfillment partner on a small scale (like, if you're just trying to send out a dozen samples to play testers / publishers or such), I'd be willing to help you out. We could order the components and have them shipped to me, I can assemble and ship them back out to the US addresses. Or honestly if you want to go cheap, I could literally have them printed at the Office Depot around the corner on glossy card stock (not cardboard, just like business card thickness) and get them sent out. Would just need boat loads of dice, but that's easily done.

Is the issue shipping or payment? Because you could probably just pay the crafter or whatever and have them shipped to me, and then I can build and re-ship. Doesn't sound like that part would require much time or effort on my part. If it's just a small board and dice, we can probably get it into a small flat rate USPS box and ship them for under $6 out from here pretty easily.
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Matt D
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Also, I wasn't able to locate the game on TTS. Did you add it to the workshop?

If not (which is totally understandable if you're trying to "protect" it) are you using it to bring people in to play test through there?

I'd love to give it a spin (literally).
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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Yes, I haven't uploaded it to workshop yet. With each play I'm more and more sure that this game is pure gold.
I have contacted some publishers I met on the The Game Crafter chat and link them to my post on BBG and they said they will give it a go (to test it) and tell me their opinion.

This is like underdog story of worst kind. I can't do much from where I am and I literally depend on other ppl to push this through further. It's riveting.

Do, you use TTS? If you do, my nickname on Steam is Bojan (my avatar is that logo of Die Hard TM imaginary game design company that I run lol), so you can friend me and we can play few games. I'm gonna wait some time before I publish it in the Steam workshop. I'm kinda in the turmoil about all this situation, if you can understand me...

There is a small club where ppl play board games in my city. Found it by sheer luck, it is a private house where ppl gather and trade games, so I will go with my prototype there to test it live, but I need to make a prototype. I can get dices from AliExpress cheap, they sell them by dozens in packages of various color, and as I said, I can make everything else at my home (have laser color printer, special paper, cutting station, all of it), since I work as a graphic designer I use that stuff for other things. :}

I have checked TGC option to publish and then give them address of some company that is doing evaluations, but that can be done only if I find a publisher that is interested enough to take my prototype. Cost is like 20,55 which is ok. Those many dices sure inflate a price lol. Dices alone are 11,65 usd.

Since I have a post on BGG in the Play-testing thread I hope some ppl will try it and give me their feedback.

But, I'm in TTS everyday, hosting for 4-5 h a day, and so far I haven't met one person that stopped after the first game. Got some stalkers that are hunting me with questions ''when will you put this in the workshop?'', because they are so eager to play. We usually play 4-5 rounds per person because game is quick, it never goes over 20-25 min top. With 4 players it is pure mayhem. Three works good two, while when you play it 1 vs 1 it is like a good game of chess. It have made quite a buzz. That's why I'm so encouraged to go further. Didn't expected it to be such a gem. I mean, I knew I have a solid game there, but it is also addictive!
 
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Matt D
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I'm on TTS frequently but typically in evening US times. (Right now as I post it is five minutes before noon). I have the same username there as here.

What times are you typically on? I've a corporate trainer and working from home this week conducting a training from 8am-4:30pm, but can probably arrange to be on most any other time if that coincides with when you are on.
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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I can jump in in TTS right now, actually, I'm already there... XD
 
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Matt D
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8Oj4N wrote:
I can jump in in TTS right now, actually, I'm already there... XD


Well, yes, but aside from a lunch break (which is ending in three minutes) I am conducting the training for the next four hours.

I can join you then if you're still around though!
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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I have send you a friend invite, so now if u see me online just give me a shout. :}
 
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Dimitri Sirenko
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great idea!
The way i understand it, is that the points only come in play in the case where the shogun is not pushed out? So if someone manages to push the shogun out he wins right away right? Maybe it's worth exploring an idea where people can still use the points they gather to help them push the shogun out? Like maybe you can spend an X amount of points to perform certain "tricks" like reroll your die or increase your die number by 1 or decrease enemy's die number by 1. Anyway i hope you get what i mean? Otherwise it just feels like the points you collect are used only for scenarios where nobody can successfully push the shogun out and if he does get pushed out all your points really mean nothing.
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game looks neat I think looking for testers at tts is a great idea in your situtation!!! They can spread love for it and maybe some publisher will be intrested. Otherwise I don't know how many people will be willing to playtest it at their homes. Good thing is it needs very little assembling so good luck!

IMO despite all the theme you are seeing in it, it is a strictly abstract game with very simple and direct interactions between players - which might be good and smth you are looking for. It reminds a bit of other abstract + conflict + japan setting game called Ortus - although yours seems to be much much easier to teach and play

btw. you got me very curious - from which country are u?
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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@Dimitry

There are two goals in game you can pursue

- To push Shogun out (instant win to you no matter the points)
- Gather points and win by collecting 80 points before other players

Game ends when one player can't do any of his actions during his turn.
When that happens all other players will play one more turn and then the scoring is done.

Only one of these 3 actions you can do during your turn:

- push a die
- assassinate a die
- retrain a die

Only pushing score points for you (you can actually not get points if you push 1 to - sign)

Only assassinations allow you to add a die to your dice poll (actually, there is one more option but it is much harder to do)

and Only a dice with a value of 1 can be retrained (re-rolled with hope that you gonna get better value and not waste your turn for nothing) [but this cost you points x(new value) - 1 (previous value)]

As the game progress it can happen that you have a die that can't push, assassinate, or be retrained, or someone can successfully got you into position when you just don't have any more dices to use.

This lead to interesting mechanics. Sometimes you just want to get rid of your dices because you are in the lead with points, but other players see that and they are keeping you in the game in hopes to catch up with points or get more time to set up good position to push Shogun out.
Also, the moment other players sees you in the Big Court with the Shogun, you become a target for them.

Now, after many play test I even think to add an option where you can use Shogun to indirectly push other player dices from the Big Court (right now you can't do that). This way, Shogun becomes more important figure than just a thing that you push around.

It's hard to explain like this. Once you start playing everything clicks faster, and then you see why its working, although, written like this it looks quite confusing, while it isn't.

Only 3 actions and simple interactions when combined on the fields with other rules really shine through...

@donatello23
I'm from Montenegro. Try to find me on the map. :>
 
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Dimitri Sirenko
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8Oj4N wrote:
@Dimitry

There are two goals in game you can pursue

- To push Shogun out (instant win to you no matter the points)
- Gather points and win by collecting 80 points before other players

Game ends when one player can't do any of his actions during his turn.
When that happens all other players will play one more turn and then the scoring is done.

Only one of these 3 actions you can do during your turn:

- push a die
- assassinate a die
- retrain a die

Only pushing score points for you (you can actually not get points if you push 1 to - sign)

Only assassinations allow you to add a die to your dice poll (actually, there is one more option but it is much harder to do)

and Only a dice with a value of 1 can be retrained (re-rolled with hope that you gonna get better value and not waste your turn for nothing) [but this cost you points x(new value) - 1 (previous value)]

As the game progress it can happen that you have a die that can't push, assassinate, or be retrained, or someone can successfully got you into position when you just don't have any more dices to use.

This lead to interesting mechanics. Sometimes you just want to get rid of your dices because you are in the lead with points, but other players see that and they are keeping you in the game in hopes to catch up with points or get more time to set up good position to push Shogun out.
Also, the moment other players sees you in the Big Court with the Shogun, you become a target for them.

Now, after many play test I even think to add an option where you can use Shogun to indirectly push other player dices from the Big Court (right now you can't do that). This way, Shogun becomes more important figure than just a thing that you push around.

It's hard to explain like this. Once you start playing everything clicks faster, and then you see why its working, although, written like this it looks quite confusing, while it isn't.

Only 3 actions and simple interactions when combined on the fields with other rules really shine through...

@donatello23
I'm from Montenegro. Try to find me on the map. :>


i would be interested to playtest this game. Ill try to add you on steam
 
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Matt D
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8Oj4N wrote:
I have send you a friend invite, so now if u see me online just give me a shout. :}


I've added you. Hopefully I'll figure out what times you are active -- according to Steam, you were last active 7 hours ago, which is right in the middle of my workday. Maybe I can catch you BEFORE I start my work day? (Which would be up until about 9 hours from now)...
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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Yes, there is a big time difference between us. My GMT is +1, I'm from Europe, you from USA. We can only catch each other either very late at night, or early in the morning, for one of us. :]

Anyway, I have ordered dices from China over AliExpress. They will arrive in a month or so. In the meantime I will make a board and House cards. I want to make them in high quality, together with the game box, so to have very good looking and durable prototype. That one will be for myself. cool
Other one that I make, I'll use for beta-testers.

Also, I need to write a good rule book as PDF which is kinda hard for me since English is not my native language. I'm sure I'll over-explain or use some wrong wording while trying to do it. :|

I might need help with that. Someone to look through that mess and make it better...

 
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Matt D
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8Oj4N wrote:
Yes, there is a big time difference between us. My GMT is +1, I'm from Europe, you from USA. We can only catch each other either very late at night, or early in the morning, for one of us. :]

Anyway, I have ordered dices from China over AliExpress. They will arrive in a month or so. In the meantime I will make a board and House cards. I want to make them in high quality, together with the game box, so to have very good looking and durable prototype. That one will be for myself. cool
Other one that I make, I'll use for beta-testers.

Also, I need to write a good rule book as PDF which is kinda hard for me since English is not my native language. I'm sure I'll over-explain or use some wrong wording while trying to do it. :|

I might need help with that. Someone to look through that mess and make it better...



Gotcha. We'll link up at some point -- after this week, I'll be able to free up time during my day (which is your evening) to be able to do that. This week is just nuts.

And I'd be more than happy to help with that too. I haven't editted any rulebooks for board games, but I was a professional copy editor (and then regular editor) for a magazine a few years back, so I do know the generalities of editing.
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Dimitri Sirenko
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8Oj4N wrote:
Yes, there is a big time difference between us. My GMT is +1, I'm from Europe, you from USA. We can only catch each other either very late at night, or early in the morning, for one of us. :]

Anyway, I have ordered dices from China over AliExpress. They will arrive in a month or so. In the meantime I will make a board and House cards. I want to make them in high quality, together with the game box, so to have very good looking and durable prototype. That one will be for myself. cool
Other one that I make, I'll use for beta-testers.

Also, I need to write a good rule book as PDF which is kinda hard for me since English is not my native language. I'm sure I'll over-explain or use some wrong wording while trying to do it. :|

I might need help with that. Someone to look through that mess and make it better...



yeah i feel like i ran into the same problem. English is not my first language too and although i've been living in canada for some time now I think the difficulty of writing proper rules comes from the fact that it is a very specific style of writing that a lot of people are not used to. I mean, i have a partner who is a native english speaker and he did even worse job than me wording everything haha. Even when you look at existing successful games, a lot of times rules have some type of ambiguity or fail to address a certain question. It's just a matter of refining and seeing if play testers understand it correctly.
 
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Bojan Prakljacic
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At least I can teach it just fine in my not so good English.;>
 
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Matt D
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8Oj4N wrote:
At least I can teach it just fine in my not so good English.;>


I have a complete understanding of it (I think) from our session earlier today.

I think I can probably help edit it for you -- it's actually pretty straightforward rules wise, but very interesting in terms of implications!

I like it a lot.
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haha I know pretty well where Montenegro is I've been close by when I was driving to Greece or Macedonia.
I wish you all the best with your project!!!
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