Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
42 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Onirim (second edition)» Forums » Reviews

Subject: 4 out of 10. A solo challenge? Not exactly. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
One of the things I like about tabletop gaming is the social factor; sitting around with your mates, chatting, joking, playing, crushing each other or – in my particular case as 95% of the time I prefer co-operative games to competitive games – working together against a common enemy.
Don't you agree? The social factor, spending time with friends, is a good side of our hobby. It's one of the better sides such that even if you're playing Incarceration (my review of which is here: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/771243/1-out-10-worst-game-i...) you still have the unifying social factor of everyone despising the game.
Good, I'm glad you agree. It's nice to have some common ground to build on! Now, let's have a look at this game called Onirim. Let's see, what does the box say? Solo play
Wait, what?!
Solo play??
As in: solo?
As in, no social factor?
Er, but, y'see, no that's … I mean, mmmm …

Synopsis
You are asleep, dreaming deeply. So deeply that you need to find 8 special doors.
Why?
Er, not entirely sure. The game doesn't say. You just do, OK?

Gameplay
You start with five cards from the deck and use them to work your way through the rest of the cards in the search for the 8 doors. Along the way you will also encounter Nightmare cards which work against you. Each time a Nightmare card is drawn, you must pick one of four negative options to resolve and it is this choice that forms most of the gameplay.
The rest of the game is very straightforward to the point that most of the time it is so obvious what to do that the game runs on auto-pilot. It is only through the Nightmare cards that you really need to do anything other than just move the cards around.
Do you discard your hand? Do you discard the top five cards of the deck? Do you shuffle one of the doors you've found back in to the deck? Or do you discard a valuable Key Card? Decision made? Right, back to doing the blindingly obvious in the search for the remaining Doors. Either the cards will fall in your favour or they won't, there's very little you can do about it other than follow the route the game lays out for you. The little control you have over the cards do give you some control but it's mostly the luck of the draw.
That really is it.

I told a little white lie in the opening to this review because while the game is primarily designed for single-player there are rules for 2-player. This adds a little bit more interest to the game; you both have your own attempt to find door cards and can swap cards around between you, but beyond that – and the added social factor – there's still not much to it.
However the game is obviously designed for single-player so that is what the remainder of the review will look at.

Remainder of the review? Haven't I covered everything? Well yes, I have indeed covered everything – of the base game. But these days, Onirim comes packaged with all seven expansion packs. So do any of these significantly change things?
I'll have a quick look at each of the expansion packs in the order they are presented in the rule-book.

The Expansions
In preparation for writing this review, I played the base game four times (won 3, lost 1) and then played the base game with each expansion twice. For some, this might not seem enough and no doubt there will be arguments that I should have played the expansions in this combo, these three together, or that group of four, etc. But in my defence I will point out that there are 5,040 (7!, yes? If not, please correct me) different possible combinations of expansions and I refuse to play each possible one!
1. The Book Of Steps Lost And Found. This expansion makes the game considerably harder by forcing upon you a specific order in which you must find the eight doors. This order is randomly determined each game so no two games should ever play the same. The expansion also gives you three new powerful abilities to try and balance the increase in difficulty but to my mind it doesn't really work, it just makes the game even more reliant on luck. If your opening hand doesn't contain any of the cards you need to find the first randomly chosen door, you could end up with several turns of doing nothing but discarding and drawing until something happens in your favour. The new abilities are activated by removing discarded cards from the game so it is obvious that the designers knew that this expansion would end up with a lot of cards in the discards but the abilities themselves aren't powerful enough to help much. Played 2, won 1, lost 1.
2. The Glyphs. This expansion makes the game harder by increasing the number of doors you must find by 4. It also adds 8 new cards to try and help with this but given that each door requires a minimum of three cards to find it, that means 12 cards would be needed to balance it out and we are given 8. This obviously makes the game harder and turns it into even more of the luck of the draw. Played 2, won 1, lost 1.
3. The Dreamcatchers. This expansion expands on the gameplay rather than just adds more of the same but it expands it in a complicated way. It creates an additional requirement to win that can get messy and frustrating and ends up being more of the same “luck of the draw” game play. Played 2, lost 2.
4. Happy Dreams And Dark Premonitions. Ah, not this is more like it! Finally there is some interesting variety. The Dark Premonitions of the title are cards with play out at the start of the game with some Trigger Effect listed on them, when the Trigger Effect is met, the rest of the card applies and this always hurts. Some of them hurt more than others but it is almost impossible to win without triggering al of them before the game ends. To try and counter balance these effects, we get 4 Happy Dreamer cards which have powerful beneficial effects. They add some variety to the game in that you have to choose which possible effect to enact when the card is applied and thus, like the Nightmare cards from the base set, actually give you a bit more control over the simple luck of the draw. This is a welcome addition. Played 2, won 2.
5. Crossroads And Dead Ends. This expansion adds 6 wild cards to the base deck as well as 10 “hand clogger” cards – cards that once you draw them just sit in your hand taking up room. There are a few ways to get rid of them but it's not as easy as you'd like. The practical upshot being that they just limit your choices. But given that I have already stated that most of the time your choice of what to do is pretty obvious anyway, all they really do is make you take the new option to discard your entire hand every so often. Played 2, won 2.
6. The Door To The Oniverse. As wth the Happy Dreams epansion mentioned above, this expansion finally adds some variety to the game. With 16 cards (two copies of 8 different ones) to add to the deck and with each of them doing something new and interesting, finally there is some more tactics and decision making for the player. It's a pity not more of the game was designed like this as these cards, on the odd occasions you get them, really do begin to open the game out a bit. But only briefly as they are all discard after use and you only ever use 8 of them in the deck at a time anyway. This expansion also adds an additional door but this is secondary to the more interesting cards I mentioned first. Played 2, won 2.
7. The Little Incubus. Not a card but a little figure. It sits next to the game and has a variety of effects depending on what you want it to do. You are given three options; make the game easier, give you an interesting new tactic, or give you the same new tactic but at a higher cost. Again, it's nice to see the game being taken away from the “luck of the draw” but it's not enough – particularly as the rules for this expansion say not to play it with any of the others. Played 2 (didn't bother with making the game easier), won 2.

So what is there left to say? I found the game pretty much plays itself until you draw a Nightmare card (or one of the cards form the Happy Dreams or Door To The Oniverse expansions), you then make a choice and the game goes back to auto-pilot.

Presentation
The rules are well written and the artwork is distinctive but doesn't get in the way.

Summary
If your opening hand contains 3 cards that all help you get the same door then you're not going to go after one of the others first, are you? That's why this game, for me, doesn't work. It's a nice idea but there just isn't enough decision making needed on the part of the player to make the game re-playable. You play the cards you draw and you get very little chance to influence which cards those are.
Some of the expansions help a little but not enough to take away the feeling of inevitability about the result of a game. Cards with more options and a greater sense of control for the player would be needed for me to be able to give this game a higher score.

4 out of 10. A nice idea but a disappointing result.



Note: I have learned from bitter experience with this site that I need to stress that all reviews – including this one – are entirely matters of opinion. I am not claiming that anything I have said in this review is fact, it is all entirely my opinion and I am sure that many others have different opinions. If you wish to reply with yours, I welcome it. I enjoy discussion but will not respond kindly to aggressive replies.
8 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
So you basically state in the opening that you will hate the game because what you like in games is the social aspect, and that you're currently reviewing a solitaire game?

How many times did you play? Because the decisions you take and their influence on the game are easier to envision after like ten games.
What you choose to discard, whether or not you choose to keep trying aligning three cards of the same colour, how you choose to get rid of nightmare, when and why you choose to discard a key to trigger a prophecy, end up having so much weight in the final third of the game that it makes it much deeper than what you imply here. You have to understand that there are more red cards than brown cards, and much more sun cards than moon and key cards.

Did you actually try the expansions? The book of lost steps for instance gives you the possibility to trigger spells, which adds a lot of depth to the game and gives you more control over what you do, as you have to keep enough cards in your discard pile to trigger the spells you need to, say, change the order you must find the doors in. A truly interesting experience, that adds an entirely new layer to the game.

At all events, a solitaire game is bound to introduce a lot of random elements if it is to have a replay value. Otherwise it would just be a puzzle you could throw away once you've solved it.

You are of course allowed to have your opinion, which I thank you for sharing.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Ah, good old BGG. It never ceases to fail. Post a negative review of a popular game and some people just can't handle it.


My review: "In preparation for writing this review, I played the base game four times (won 3, lost 1) and then played the base game with each expansion twice."
First response: "How many times did you play?"

My review: " ... played the base game with each expansion twice."
First response: "Did you actually try the expansions?"

My review: "The Book Of Steps Lost And Found ... also gives you three new powerful abilities ... [t]he new abilities are activated by removing discarded cards from the game"
First response: "The book of lost steps for instance gives you the possibility to trigger spells"

Got to ask, did you even read my review?
Or did you just read the opening and then skip to the end?

The opening which, btw, does NOT say I "will hate the game because what [I] like in games is the social aspect". It says that one, just ONE, of the things that I like is the social aspect of gaming but that this game doesn't have that. I do NOT then say I will hate the game; all I say is that this game is missing one of the things I like about gaming. I then played it EIGHTEEN TIMES anyway in order to give it as fair as a review as possible.
17 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Stenun wrote:
Ah, good old BGG. It never ceases to fail. Post a negative review of a popular game and some people just can't handle it.


How can't I handle it?

Anyway, the two points you stress here tells a lot about the structure you used for the review. You're putting some of your personal opinions in the gameplay section, where you should focus on the rules, a part that people who already know how the play the game can and should skip. Which I did.

Information about how many times you played the game would have been seen, had you put it at the beginning of the review, or at the beginning of the conclusion/summary, which is all I truly need to read as someone who knows the game.

As for the opening, you're clearly being hostile to the fact that the game is a solitaire game, and if you aren't, well then there are better ways to say what you said.

Now, it doesn't invalidate what I said about the game being deeper than what you put forward in your review. I do not mind that you disllke the game. It is your right entirely. I know that I dislike Castellion from the same designer. At first I disliked it because of a misunderstanding. I now dislike it, 20 plays later, because I don't think it's a well designed game. But I understand it.

I can handle the fact you wrote a negative review about the game. I just wish you went deeper with your analysis so your review would really help people who can't decide by themselves whether they should buy it or not. Onirim has a ton of good reviews, and really needs negative reviews. But it needs good negative reviews, which go deep into why some people wouldn't like the game, and which come from a deep understanding of the game that goes beyond the "wow, people play games solo? WTF?" and "well, that was random, because nothing you do has an influence on what you draw, but I don't like it enough to give you the exact reasons why."

For instance, you could state that Shadi Torbey created this game as solitaire game inspired by, the Patience card game, but with a twist, and treat it like that. As such, it is supposed to be a light, luck-driven game. I, myself, think there is enough decision-making to make it worthwhile, but I wouldn't recommand it to just anyone.

It's an interesting and light game to bring with you on holiday, with a small footprint, but it sure doesn't have the same depth as Mage Knight Board Game, which would definitely not do when I'm waiting for my girlfriend to come back from her sport session... For which Onirim is perfect!
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Razoupaf wrote:
Anyway, the two points you stress here tells a lot about the structure you used for the review. You're putting some of your personal opinions in the gameplay section, where you should focus on the rules, a part that people who already know how the play the game can and should skip. Which I did.



Are you honestly trying to maintain that I shouldn't review the gameplay in the gameplay section of a review?
Where did you think I was going to review the gameplay? In the foot note??



Edit: For the record, this is the 35th review I've posted to BGG and it is the very first time I have been criticised for posting a review of the gameplay in the gameplay section of the review. Of all the things people have said about my reviews so far, this has GOT to be the weirdest.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David B
United States
Chesapeake
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Good grief dude. Raz made some good points. If you are going to be that touchy, perhaps consider retiring as a reviewer.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mikolaj Witkowski
Poland
Warsaw
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
A very well written review, if I may point out you could deal with some small typos, they break the overall impression. (e.g. "not" in place of "now").

I'm not sure, have you tried the two player variant? And if yes has it changed your opinion? Regardless, Onirim is a relaxing game and there are not that many decisions, but it is great at what it does, i.e. playing for half an hour without too much stress when you are waiting for somebody etc. If you like the graphic style but want a more involved and challenging game I recommend Sylvion

Anyway, thanks for a great read!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
pfctsqr wrote:
Good grief dude. Raz made some good points. If you are going to be that touchy, perhaps consider retiring as a reviewer.


Touchy?
He didn't read the review before criticising it.

Most writers tend to be "touchy" if someone criticises what you're written without actually having read it. *lol*
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
borsook wrote:
A very well written review, if I may point out you could deal with some small typos, they break the overall impression. (e.g. "not" in place of "now").

I'm not sure, have you tried the two player variant? And if yes has it changed your opinion? Regardless, Onirim is a relaxing game and there are not that many decisions, but it is great at what it does, i.e. playing for half an hour without too much stress when you are waiting for somebody etc. If you like the graphic style but want a more involved and challenging game I recommend Sylvion

Anyway, thanks for a great read!


I did notice that typo but I wasn't sure if I should correct it or not as I am unsure if it's possible to see past Edits. I didn't want the little "Total number of edits" to pop up and thus allow people to accuse me of editing other things in the review. :-)

As for Sylvion, I do have a better opinion of it than I do of Onirim! My next review I'm working on at the moment is for T.I.M.E. Stories but I might do Sylvion after that. :-)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sebastian Zarzycki
Poland
Poznan
Wielkopolskie
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Stenun wrote:

If your opening hand contains 3 cards that all help you get the same door then you're not going to go after one of the others first, are you? That's why this game, for me, doesn't work.


You're sort of contradicting yourself here. You've said previously, that there's little decision making, and you just follow what the game gives you. And yet you're here asking for "going after something", implying that there is some kind of strategy in there.

Answering your question. 3 keys of the same color is a risky but good hand. Most likely you will use 2 or even 3 keys to combat the Nightmares. If you use the 3rd one, you will now know, that you have to put three different symbols "the manual way", and not unlock directly, so this influences your decisions later on. Then, the color of the key matters. If it's a blue one, ok. If it's a brown/gold one, then you might want to think twice - if you spend all 3 keys, is it reasonable to expect to manual unlock? What's in your starting hand apart from these keys? And so on, and so on. There are DEFINITELY ways to play this game well and to play it horribly.

What I'm trying to say is that there's quite a lot chance calculation and decision making and EVEN some kind of strategy in a plain simple shuffle, play, discard game. You have to first wonder why people play solitaire so much all over the world (with cards, on computer)? It's dumb as hell, you just draw cards and lay them around, but still! Onirim is a notch higer game, not going to offer wild complexity of full blown board games, but enough to get you interested. I've appreciated it a lot when I was alone during work trips. Its portability and small space needs made it a perfect game for such cases.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David B
United States
Chesapeake
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Stenun wrote:
pfctsqr wrote:
Good grief dude. Raz made some good points. If you are going to be that touchy, perhaps consider retiring as a reviewer.


Touchy?
He didn't read the review before criticising it.

Most writers tend to be "touchy" if someone criticises what you're written without actually having read it. *lol*



A lot of what you said, though, is buried under the dense wall of text under "gameplay" and "expnsions" which, as he said, most people who are familiar with the game skip, and rightfully so. Who wants to read a long description of gameplay when they already know how to play? If you insist on people reading those sections, a few well placed breaks might make it a bit more inviting on the eyes.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
pfctsqr wrote:
Stenun wrote:
pfctsqr wrote:
Good grief dude. Raz made some good points. If you are going to be that touchy, perhaps consider retiring as a reviewer.


Touchy?
He didn't read the review before criticising it.

Most writers tend to be "touchy" if someone criticises what you're written without actually having read it. *lol*



A lot of what you said, though, is buried under the dense wall of text under "gameplay" and "expnsions" which, as he said, most people who are familiar with the game skip, and rightfully so. Who wants to read a long description of gameplay when they already know how to play? If you insist on people reading those sections, a few well placed breaks might make it a bit more inviting on the eyes.


If you don't want to read the review because you don't have the concentration for it, then don't read it. Fine. No worries. But don't criticise it if you don't read it. Simple.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
rattkin wrote:
Stenun wrote:

If your opening hand contains 3 cards that all help you get the same door then you're not going to go after one of the others first, are you? That's why this game, for me, doesn't work.


Answering your question. 3 keys of the same color is a risky but good hand.


No, not three Keys of the same colour; I said 3 cards. :-)

If you have three red cards in your opening hand, one blue and one brown, you're not going to go after green first, are you?
You're not even going to go after blue or brown ...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sebastian Zarzycki
Poland
Poznan
Wielkopolskie
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Three cards helping to get the same door implies keys to me, but maybe it's the language. Keys are cards too, you know.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Are you suggesting that it's wrong, that if you have a good starting hand that leans you towards a certain move, you're inclined to make that move? Because that criticism could be probably applied to every card game there is. How is that bad, is beyond me.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
United Kingdom
Belfast
Northern Ireland
flag msg tools
XIPULOXX FHTAGN!
mbmbmbmbmb
Ian, thanks for your review. I don't agree with it, but it's important to have more critical reviews as well as more positive ones.

You say the Glyphs make the game harder, but in my experience they actually make it easier, because of the option to discard a glyph to get a door (can be very useful after a Prophecy).

The Book of Steps Lost and Found is probably my favourite expansion and I'm surprised you didn't think it added choices. It's true the start of the game can feel a bit scripted, but I usually find that resolves itself pretty quickly. And you often end up with the choice to play cards and hope you get another one of the right colour, or use the discards to give yourself a leg up and hope you don't need them for something else later, especially as if you hoard them you can use them to defeat a Nightmare!

I understand you not wanting to try all the possible combinations of expansions, but it is worth considering how they might combine. For example, Book of Steps combines particularly well with Happy Dreams (Happy Dreams helping you find the cards you need and Premonitions giving you reasons to aim for particular doors earlier) and/or with Crossroads (the wild cards really help in getting the colour you need) in my opinion.

I wonder if you realised you are allowed to keep track of the discards? That makes the game much more interesting, because if you know how many of each card is left in the deck then you can work out your chance of drawing what you need, and use that to inform your decisions.

I do think David has a point that a lot of people don't bother reading the "gameplay" section of a review if they already know how to play the game: I usually skim it pretty quickly myself. I'm sure you're feeling unjustly attacked, but saying things like "If you don't want to read the review because you don't have the concentration for it, then don't read it" is pretty silly. If you want your review to be helpful, you should take on board comments about how to make it more user-friendly.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
mbmbmbmbmb
I like Onirim, but i agree a bit with the OP.

It's seriously the game in the series that has the least decisions to do, from a gameplay perspective. "Technically", you have a lot of choices. However most of the times you'll have 4 obvious bad ones and only 1 good one.

I find Sylvion to have more difficult decisions that can impact the entire flow of the game. The game takes a lot longer than Onirim and Castellion however, which is why i'm playing it less.
Castellion, to me, is currently the best in the series. It plays fast and provides you with some decision making.
Onirim's a good game, but ultimately a simple one. It plays fast however, so i still play it.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
xipuloxx wrote:
I do think David has a point that a lot of people don't bother reading the "gameplay" section of a review if they already know how to play the game: I usually skim it pretty quickly myself. I'm sure you're feeling unjustly attacked, but saying things like "If you don't want to read the review because you don't have the concentration for it, then don't read it" is pretty silly. If you want your review to be helpful, you should take on board comments about how to make it more user-friendly.


No, I've never had this problem before and I believe it's an unfair criticism now.

This is a review of a game. The most important part of a game is the gameplay. Therefore, surely, the most important part of a review of a game would be the section entitled "Gameplay"? It's not a "Rules", section. It's a "Gameplay" section.
That's how I've handled it in all my other reviews for BGG and it's only now, with one person obviously skipping the review, that it's become an issue.

There are two types of people who will read this review:
1) Those who haven't yet played it.
2) Those who have played it and are curious about someone else's opinion.

If you full under (1), you will read the entire review. Problem sorted.

If you fall under (2) but you want to criticise the review because you disagree with it, surely it's just common sense to read the whole thing first?
You can't watch the first ten minutes of a Batman movie, skip to the last ten minutes, and not bother with the rest because you know about Batman; and THEN criticise the movie. That would just be silly. Yet that is precisely what has happened in this case and I am being held up as the one in the wrong.
Um, no, sorry. Don't buy it.

Read the review then criticise, fine. But if you don't read the review, you have no right to criticise it.

My previous 34 reviews have all followed the same structure (check any one of them out if you don't believe me: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/browse/boardgame/0?username...). The gameplay is reviewed in the gameplay section of a review. Blindingly obvious.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
rattkin wrote:
Three cards helping to get the same door implies keys to me, but maybe it's the language. Keys are cards too, you know.

I'm not sure what you're suggesting. Are you suggesting that it's wrong, that if you have a good starting hand that leans you towards a certain move, you're inclined to make that move? Because that criticism could be probably applied to every card game there is. How is that bad, is beyond me.



Look at it like this ...
If your opening hand contains three or more of the same colour, it makes sense to go for that door first, yes?
If your opening hand contains two of one colour and one of each other colour, it still makes sense to go for the one you have 2 of, yes?
If your opening hand contains 2 of one colour, 2 of another colour and one of a third, there are two possibilities:
a) you have a key If so, play it.
b) you don't have a key. Now you need to make a 50/50 decision over which colour to go for first. (And in fact if you know the ratio of colours, it's not even 50/50 as you will know which colour you are more likely to draw.)

So where, exactly, is there a decision that the player needs to make that will take more than a few seconds to resolve?

There isn't one, that's my point. The game flows through pretty obvious moves, so obvious that most of the time - in the base game - only the Nightmare cards really require much thought.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
pfctsqr wrote:
Stenun wrote:
pfctsqr wrote:
Good grief dude. Raz made some good points. If you are going to be that touchy, perhaps consider retiring as a reviewer.


Touchy?
He didn't read the review before criticising it.

Most writers tend to be "touchy" if someone criticises what you're written without actually having read it. *lol*



A lot of what you said, though, is buried under the dense wall of text under "gameplay" and "expnsions" which, as he said, most people who are familiar with the game skip, and rightfully so. Who wants to read a long description of gameplay when they already know how to play? If you insist on people reading those sections, a few well placed breaks might make it a bit more inviting on the eyes.



So you believe I should write a review without going in to detail about what I'm reviewing?
That's how you are coming across to me.
I went in to extensive detail in my review and now you're saying there's too much there? Would one sentence have been better?

Again, if you don't want to read it all, then don't. But don't criticise what you haven't read.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David B
United States
Chesapeake
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Stenun wrote:
pfctsqr wrote:
Stenun wrote:
pfctsqr wrote:
Good grief dude. Raz made some good points. If you are going to be that touchy, perhaps consider retiring as a reviewer.


Touchy?
He didn't read the review before criticising it.

Most writers tend to be "touchy" if someone criticises what you're written without actually having read it. *lol*



A lot of what you said, though, is buried under the dense wall of text under "gameplay" and "expnsions" which, as he said, most people who are familiar with the game skip, and rightfully so. Who wants to read a long description of gameplay when they already know how to play? If you insist on people reading those sections, a few well placed breaks might make it a bit more inviting on the eyes.



So you believe I should write a review without going in to detail about what I'm reviewing?
That's how you are coming across to me.
I went in to extensive detail in my review and now you're saying there's too much there? Would one sentence have been better?

Again, if you don't want to read it all, then don't. But don't criticise what you haven't read.


You completely misunderstood my point. By far, and I mean WAY by far, too many reviews on this site spend too much time on gameplay and not enough on review. Rules can be read from other sources and that's what many of us do. We already know how to play the game. In a review, we want your impressions, not a long description of the rules. Most reviews here have an opening, a too lengthy rules description, and a too brief "thoughts and opinions" section. This is what your review appeared to be. However, you did sprinkle other information amidst the gameplay, which is fine but atypical of most reviews on this site. I don't mind reading a gameplay synopsis if impressions are mixed in, but first sight of your review did not lead me or others to believe that was the case. If you want readers to read through the gameplay synopsis, spend a little more time formatting your review and you will increase the probability that people will read the entire thing. The current format of your "expansions" section is not user friendly and readers are apt to skip it.

Take my advice or not. I don't care. But if you want to be taken seriously as a reviewer and you want people to read what you have to say, you need to put a little more effort in how your review looks on the page.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sebastian Zarzycki
Poland
Poznan
Wielkopolskie
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Stenun wrote:

Look at it like this ...
If your opening hand contains three or more of the same colour, it makes sense to go for that door first, yes?


Yes.


Stenun wrote:

If your opening hand contains two of one colour and one of each other colour, it still makes sense to go for the one you have 2 of, yes?


Yes.

Stenun wrote:

If your opening hand contains 2 of one colour, 2 of another colour and one of a third, there are two possibilities:
a) you have a key If so, play it.
b) you don't have a key. Now you need to make a 50/50 decision over which colour to go for first. (And in fact if you know the ratio of colours, it's not even 50/50 as you will know which colour you are more likely to draw.)


Why would you play a key? That's the worst move.

Stenun wrote:

So where, exactly, is there a decision that the player needs to make that will take more than a few seconds to resolve?


You've described many of them above. Just because they're relatively simple, doesn't meant they aren't there. Then again, they're only "relatively simple", once you get a good grip on the game. Not flat out straightforward.

Stenun wrote:

There isn't one, that's my point. The game flows through pretty obvious moves, so obvious that most of the time - in the base game - only the Nightmare cards really require much thought.


Hey now, so there is something that require thought after all. One could argue that "only Nightmare" is like 80% of the actual game.

Again, your point being? I still think you keep contradicting yourself.

You don't like the game, you feel there should be more decisions to be made for a meaty solo game. Fair enough, that's a valid stance. But you try to imply that there's nothing to think of while playing and that's just not true.

For what its worth I agree with the OP that criticizing the review is just over the top. There's a lot of information in there and arranged in a reasonable manner. OP cannot be responsible for those who don't want to read it fully and I can imagine the annoyance of answering questions that were already answered in the actual post, so if someone asks that, then he clearly didn't read it. If you didn't read it, that's on you. You strip yourself out of the privilege of constructive responding by not spending the time to actually read the thing.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
rattkin wrote:
Stenun wrote:

There isn't one, that's my point. The game flows through pretty obvious moves, so obvious that most of the time - in the base game - only the Nightmare cards really require much thought.


Hey now, so there is something that require thought after all. One could argue that "only Nightmare" is like 80% of the actual game.


And I said as much in the original review.
:-)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
I'm going to withdraw from this thread for now.

If you don't agree with my opinion of the game, that's fine.
If you don't like the review, that's fine.

But I am getting rather fed up of those people who either didn't read the review but criticised it anyway, or are defending those who did just that because - for the first time in 35 reviews - apparently my "formatting" isn't perfect.

So I'm going to close this window now and ignore the alerts for this thread for a week a or two. I might respond in the future if I feel the need and maybe if you ever encounter one of my other reviews in future, you could do me the honour of reading the bloody thing before criticising it. Thanks. :-)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David B
United States
Chesapeake
Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
One of the most valuable skills you can have is the ability to accept and make use of constructive criticism and feedback. This skill is especially true when you are creating something for the public to view or use. I guess some people have this skill and some don't.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian K
msg tools
mbmbmbmb
pfctsqr wrote:
One of the most valuable skills you can have is the ability to accept and make use of constructive criticism and feedback. This skill is especially true when you are creating something for the public to view or use. I guess some people have this skill and some don't.


One of the most valuable skills you can have is the ability to read something before you comment on it. This skill is especially true if you are criticising it. I guess some people have this skill and some don't.

Bye bye.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.