Steven Woodcock
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I found this all rather fascinating:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/03/world/europe/spain-sociali...
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Oliver Dienz
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They still have sky high unemployment and are in dire need of countercyclical fiscal policy. Instead, they are forced to undergo austerity by the EU. No wonder that many citizens think their government is rather useless.
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Wendell
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Ferretman wrote:


To be specific, some Spaniards are enjoying this time without the elected layer of politicians at the top.

The actual organs of the Spanish government remain - soldiers, civil servants, police, etc.

New York Times article wrote:
In some ways, this is a phantom crisis for ordinary Spaniards. There has been no United States-style government shutdown. There are no mounds of uncollected garbage, no unpaid police officers, no shuttered ministries, no public trains or buses halted.

Budget money is still flowing. Government ministries are functioning. Social service recipients and civil servants are being paid. Even if no new government has been formed when the 2016 national budget expires this fall, the old budget will simply become the new budget for 2017.


Not exactly anarchy. Though no new initiatives, and Spain being a bit fortunate this has happened at a time when their economy was recovering and are confronting no foreign crises.
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jeremy cobert
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Oh noes !

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Boaty McBoatface
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jeremycobert wrote:
Oh noes !

There is still government.
 
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David Dearlove
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jeremycobert wrote:
Oh noes !


The politicians are acting like American ones. They squabble and refuse to deal with each other. Meanwhile government is in the hands of a caretaker who can run the country unless he wants any laws passed. Sounds familiar?
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Walt
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DavidDearlove wrote:
The politicians are acting like American ones. They squabble and refuse to deal with each other. Meanwhile government is in the hands of a caretaker who can run the country unless he wants any laws passed. Sounds familiar?

Exactly. The government is completely there. It's the politicians who are doing nothing. So, the government is being run by its top-level unelected bureaucrats without any oversight, with full budget.

I expect, unlike the US, Spain doesn't have a clock on its budget. They don't need continuing resolutions to continue operating.
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Steven Woodcock
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Drew1365 wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
The politicians are acting like American ones. They squabble and refuse to deal with each other. Meanwhile government is in the hands of a caretaker who can run the country unless he wants any laws passed. Sounds familiar?

Exactly. The government is completely there. It's the politicians who are doing nothing. So, the government is being run by its top-level unelected bureaucrats without any oversight, with full budget.


Is this a complaint? I thought you guys liked when unelected bureaucrats ran everything without any oversight from Congress. Or what have the last 8 years been about?



Oh, good point, good point.....



Ferret
 
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Walt
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Drew1365 wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
The politicians are acting like American ones. They squabble and refuse to deal with each other. Meanwhile government is in the hands of a caretaker who can run the country unless he wants any laws passed. Sounds familiar?

Exactly. The government is completely there. It's the politicians who are doing nothing. So, the government is being run by its top-level unelected bureaucrats without any oversight, with full budget.

Is this a complaint? I thought you guys liked when unelected bureaucrats ran everything without any oversight from Congress. Or what have the last 8 years been about?

Just a statement. I don't know who "you guys" are. Our Beloved Congress has been shirking its responsibilities for a long time: You'd think we'd stop re-electing the idiots. I suppose we, on average, get the government we deserve.
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Jorge Montero
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Tall_Walt wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
The politicians are acting like American ones. They squabble and refuse to deal with each other. Meanwhile government is in the hands of a caretaker who can run the country unless he wants any laws passed. Sounds familiar?

Exactly. The government is completely there. It's the politicians who are doing nothing. So, the government is being run by its top-level unelected bureaucrats without any oversight, with full budget.

I expect, unlike the US, Spain doesn't have a clock on its budget. They don't need continuing resolutions to continue operating.


There is a clock in the budget, the deadline hasn't been hit yet though. The feeling today is that a tenuous government will be put in place soon, if just to approve the next budget. There is a temporary government right now, but they lack powers an approved government does, like passing a budget.

It's a nonsensical political situation, where everyone is looking towards what would happen if we had yet another election. The traditional conservative party is stalling, because they have the most loyal base, although they have pretty much no support from anyone under 40, so in chaos, they think the have the highest floor until they voters start dying. The traditional left wing party is in a state of panic, and newer parties are trying to gain some voter loyalty, all while regional parties see this as an opportunity to gain more power or ask for independence altogether.

It's pretty tough. I don't see many happy because there's no government, but I am sure the NYT can find all kinds of people if they really look hard.

What is easy to find? People leaving. It's a place where good, experienced programmers make 25-30K. It's no wonder that you can find three kinds of people in my graduating high school class: Those that left the country, those that studied the same as their parents and are taking over their jobs just by parentage, and those that are struggling.
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Boaty McBoatface
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Drew1365 wrote:
Tall_Walt wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
The politicians are acting like American ones. They squabble and refuse to deal with each other. Meanwhile government is in the hands of a caretaker who can run the country unless he wants any laws passed. Sounds familiar?

Exactly. The government is completely there. It's the politicians who are doing nothing. So, the government is being run by its top-level unelected bureaucrats without any oversight, with full budget.


Is this a complaint? I thought you guys liked when unelected bureaucrats ran everything without any oversight from Congress. Or what have the last 8 years been about?
I do not think it is, it is stating the situation.
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Steve Cates
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Spain actually has a history with anarchism, the 1936 revolution. It took the combined effort of the fascists, communists, and western crony capitalists working together to defeat it.
 
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David Dearlove
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ironcates wrote:
Spain actually has a history with anarchism, the 1936 revolution. It took the combined effort of the fascists, communists, and western crony capitalists working together to defeat it.

I think you have your history rather wrong here.
The socialists and some other democratic groups with anarchists and communists were the government (aided by the USSR). The Fascists (Falange), aided by Mussolini and Hitler and your crony capitalists, were the rebels. Calling the events of 1936 a revolution disguises the fact that it was a fascist military coup against a democratic government.
As the civil war went on the democratic element lost out to the hard left, largely because the USSR was the Spanish government's only foreign helper.
The extremists almost always replace democrats in civil wars (see Syria)
The idea that the Fascists cooperated with Communists to defeat anarchists is laughable.
Mind you the Anarchists and Communists did spend a lot of time manoeuvring (and sometimes fighting) against each other and other groups, but that is the nature of the left, always fratricidal.
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Boaty McBoatface
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DavidDearlove wrote:
ironcates wrote:
Spain actually has a history with anarchism, the 1936 revolution. It took the combined effort of the fascists, communists, and western crony capitalists working together to defeat it.

I think you have your history rather wrong here.
The socialists and some other democratic groups with anarchists and communists were the government (aided by the USSR). The Fascists (Falange), aided by Mussolini and Hitler and your crony capitalists, were the rebels. Calling the events of 1936 a revolution disguises the fact that it was a fascist military coup against a democratic government.
As the civil war went on the democratic element lost out to the hard left, largely because the USSR was the Spanish government's only foreign helper.
The extremists almost always replace democrats in civil wars (see Syria)
The idea that the Fascists cooperated with Communists to defeat anarchists is laughable.
Mind you the Anarchists and Communists did spend a lot of time manoeuvring (and sometimes fighting) against each other and other groups, but that is the nature of the left, always fratricidal.
I think he means the government of Azaña, of course that was socialist and not anarchist.
 
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