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Subject: Question to the authors: Determining the value of project cards rss

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Das Mammut
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As I know that the authors of the game are reading these forums (which I appreciate a lot), I will post this question in hope to get an answer by them

When creating the project cards, which method did you use to determine each project's cost? Do you have some scoring system, assigning e.g. a particular amount of credits for each resource / production benefit a project grants? Or did you just price them based on experience from your test games?

I am asking this question for 2 purposes:
1) The answer might help with formulating strategies / strategy guides.
2) The answer might help fans with designing our own project cards.

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Enoch Fryxelius
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dasmammut wrote:
As I know that the authors of the game are reading these forums (which I appreciate a lot), I will post this question in hope to get an answer by them

When creating the project cards, which method did you use to determine each project's cost? Do you have some scoring system, assigning e.g. a particular amount of credits for each resource / production benefit a project grants? Or did you just price them based on experience from your test games?

I am asking this question for 2 purposes:
1) The answer might help with formulating strategies / strategy guides.
2) The answer might help fans with designing our own project cards.



Yes, we are using a formula when deciding the total cost of the card (3MC+playing cost). Resources, production, TR, tile laying, drawing cards, certain tags (not all) have fixed prices that we add together to calculate the card cost. This cost is then affected by the difficulty of requirements, and there is also an increasing discount for expensive cards, i e you get the indivual effect of an expensive card slightly cheaper than you would on a cheaper card.
Without a formula, it would be a hopeless task trying to balance hundreds of cards.
Of course, some aspects of some cards are hard to make formulas for. Extensive (we talk several years of development) playtesting has helped Jacob and us to adjust this formula and also find a balanced pricing for those cards and effects that go outside the box.

We are not revealing this formula. Sorry! And don't make your own cards. We will have new cards for you soon...
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Jordan Booth
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EagleEye80 wrote:
We are not revealing this formula. Sorry! And don't make your own cards. We will have new cards for you soon...

Oh, but my copy came with one blank card with the project deck backing..
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Enoch Fryxelius
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Born-of-Ashes wrote:
EagleEye80 wrote:
We are not revealing this formula. Sorry! And don't make your own cards. We will have new cards for you soon...

Oh, but my copy came with one blank card with the project deck backing..


On the blank card, you are supposed to draw a picture of yourself:

"Zombie attack" - cost 5 - Destroy any city on the board.

Seams balanced, right?
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Casper Gad
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When you add more cards, please don't fall into the trap of so many other games right now where a new mechanic is allways added along with new cards... if the mechanics are allready solid, then all we really want is more factions/cards stuff that adds to replayability...

really see it as a common problem by now that designers allways add new mechanics to expansions... some times it's great, but often it'll lead to some kind of over saturation, while just more factions for diversity was all that was really needed hope you get what I mean.

When that is said and done, I just look so much forward to trying the game. Should recieve it later today or tomorrow, so I just look forward to the first couple of games. The game seems really solid rom what I've seen!
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Jonathan Fryxelius
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cbgad wrote:
When you add more cards, please don't fall into the trap of so many other games right now where a new mechanic is allways added along with new cards... if the mechanics are allready solid, then all we really want is more factions/cards stuff that adds to replayability...

really see it as a common problem by now that designers allways add new mechanics to expansions... some times it's great, but often it'll lead to some kind of over saturation, while just more factions for diversity was all that was really needed hope you get what I mean.


I can promise you that any future expansions will be derived from theme. If that theme fits good with current mechanisms, no new will be needed. But if you want a new dimension to the theme, you might need a new dimension to the mechanisms too. But I do understand what you mean.

TM Contest

If you look at this old contest, you can see things that are included or not included in the game or any thought-out expansion. This contest is old, so new ideas have come up, but when you get the game, you can easily investigate what has not yet been implemented, and thus, what future expansions might add
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Örjan Almén
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cbgad wrote:
When you add more cards, please don't fall into the trap of so many other games right now where a new mechanic is allways added along with new cards... if the mechanics are allready solid, then all we really want is more factions/cards stuff that adds to replayability...

really see it as a common problem by now that designers allways add new mechanics to expansions... some times it's great, but often it'll lead to some kind of over saturation, while just more factions for diversity was all that was really needed hope you get what I mean.

When that is said and done, I just look so much forward to trying the game. Should recieve it later today or tomorrow, so I just look forward to the first couple of games. The game seems really solid rom what I've seen!


I think both is ok as long as you can choose to include the new mechanics or not, some would like new mechanics and some not, so then it's up to the players to decide what expansions to add in to the game or not, or what expansions to buy or not.
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Sebastian Stückl
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To be honest, I am somewhat intrigued how you want to add new cards to the game anyway in expansions, considering the current size of the deck (208+1).
The main problem in this case is that you need to add a much bigger amount of cards to the deck to impact gameplay and make sure people regularly draw cards from the expansion at all, but that also comes with additional issues...

That said, I think there is still quite a lot of room for cards with the current mechanics (most notably, animals which currently only have 9 cards),
though I don't mind a new mechanic either, as long as it smoothly fits into the game play (i.e. variable milestones)
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Donald Cleary
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For expansions you can easily just take X cards from the base game and Y cards from an expansion set and shuffle them together. There's your deck. Or shuffle all and remove Z cards from the deck.
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Georg D.
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You can also use an extra pile. Suppose you introduce a set of alien-technology cads. You can make an extrapile with those cards and either let the players choose each time from which pile they want to draw or make a rule that each research phase exactly one of the four cards come from the alien-technology pile.
(A friend of mine had the idea for the coregame with themed piles - one with 60% spaceprojects, one with 60% energy-centered projects... so you can mitigate luck of draw a bit. But I'm too lazy to construct those piles and sinc I haven't sleeved my cards yet I can't mark the cards to which pile the belong.)
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Jonathan Franklin
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I think another way this could be important is when playing with people who don't like 'take that'.

What is the 'value of taking 3 plant cubes from one player'?

If we could figure that out, we could reverse engineer the cards to have the same features, but offer a benefit of a cheaper card if you don't use the take-that part of it.

Another idea was to globalize the take-that, so in a 4p game, taking 1 cube from each of three people vs. 3 from one person vs. taking 1 cube for yourself. (How is -3 plant cubes from someone else valued relative to +1 plant cube for yourself?)
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