$20.00
$15.00
$5.00
Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
17 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Board Game Design » Board Game Design

Subject: Design Issue concerning multiple upgradable buildings rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Martin Heslop
msg tools
Dear Geeks,

I'm currently in the process of designing the mechanics for a rather complex cooperative board game and hit a design issue that I wanted to discuss with you people.

The issue as follows:
The game will feature a total of 16 buildings each of these buildings will start at bronze lvl and are upgradable twice (obviously silver and gold). However, in order to build the upgrade you first need to research said upgrade.
Therefore, I need a design solution that is able to easily show:
A. what research has been conducted for which building
B. which lvl a building holds (bronze, silver, gold)
Also, you cannot research the gold lvl before your building actually has been upgraded to silver.

The number of buildings makes the ideas I've had a bit unclear.

Idea 1: Token. You gain the token for your research, showing "research credit" on the back and e.g. "Samplebuilding - Silver". Once you build the upgrade you place the token on your building, showing the new level.

Two problems arise with this solution:
A. a total amount of 32 token, two for each building, plus (B.) the token end up being placed on the buildings where other interactions take place, hence making things more confusing.

Idea 2:
Overview. An overview is added to the board, showing all buildings (2x 8 rows). Showing an advancement bar for each building.

The major problem here:
A. The markers showing the advancement are easily pushed aside, causing major confusion about your upgrades/building lvl.

I'm thankful for any smart ideas, tweaks etc. But please only consider feasible and realistic solutions. Thanks!

Cheers,
Iggn

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bojan Prakljacic
msg tools
Does all bronze buildings start already built or do you have to research something first to place a bronze building on the table? This is what you mean by overview, every building already placed on a board, or drawn on a board?

In any case, if you would have all bronze buildings already set as part of your board art, then you need cards for silver and gold buildings printed on face and back (face - silver building, back - gold building).
Then you can also use double-sided research token. So you flip them as u research / upgrade.

Then you will need only 16 cards and 16 tokens.Not a bad deal.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dimitri Sirenko
Canada
Vancouver
BC
flag msg tools
its kind of hard to come up with solutions without knowing a bit more details. Like what are the buildings represented by? cards? Tokens? tiles? physical plastic pieces? Do you have cards in the game? How are the buildings placed? Are they always in the same spot or do people place them differently each game? How do you acquire research blueprints and what are they represented by (cards etc)?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Harv Veerman
Netherlands
Zoetermeer
Zuid-Holland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Could there be 2 or three versions of a building? Thinking doublesided tiles/cards here:

- bronze / bronze researched
- silver / silver researched
- gold

Thinking cards are cheaper than tokens...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Metäl Warrior
Netherlands
flag msg tools
I'm assuming the buildings are models looking like skyscrapers, and that the game board has each building site marked on it.

Mark one side of each lot with an arrow pointing at one side of the building. Designate one side of the building to be bronze, one silver, one gold, and one nothing if necessary. Then just turn the appropriate side to face the arrow.

Should be possible to convert to other ways you're representing buildings and lots, and doesn't require any additional tokens.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Heslop
msg tools
hey guys,

thanks for the input sofar. I'll try to go more into detail on what kind of game I'm creating and the effect I want to achieve with the buildings and their current status.

The buildings (cardboard tiles) are used for worker placement. Eigth of the buildings will earn you resources and the other eight are activated abilities triggered by worker placement (such as research or building upgrades).
The board is shaped octagonally, having an inner octagon (action buildings) and a modular outer octagonal ring (resource buildings). The layout is not optional. During the game, unit movement will take place on these tiles (e.g. enemy units blocking resource production).

However, Jaffeli's input gave me the idea of a pentagonal token with an arrow on one corner and printing a pentagon on the board for each building. All five corners resembling one step of the research/upgrade.

Bronze (start) -> Silver research -> Siler -> Gold reasearch -> Gold

That way the issue of having the token move is minimised, since you'd need an odd rotational and lateral movement in order to mess up.

What do you think?

ps. How do I add external images to the posts, it doesn't seem to have worked with my first post...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benj Davis
Australia
Summer Hill
NSW
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
If the details are simple enough, you could put them on the sides of a cube, with iconography and an arrow to tell you what you need to do to turn it, and which direction you then turn it.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Don Riddle
United States
Leesburg
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Jlerpy wrote:
If the details are simple enough, you could put them on the sides of a cube, with iconography and an arrow to tell you what you need to do to turn it, and which direction you then turn it.

Actually the 16 Buildings could be represented by 6-sided dice; i.e. the dice could be used to represent their state.
1- (off board, not built)
2- Copper Building
3- Silver research
4- Silver
5- Gold Research
6- Gold

... or custom dice as Jlerpy proposes. But 16 dice vs 32 double-sided tokens is neither here nor there. You may just have to accept that your game is somewhat component heavy.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Freelance Police
United States
Palo Alto
California
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
If you haven't gotten past the playtesting stage, don't worry about it. The underlying rules may change, affecting the final layout.

I'm used to sprawling Ameritrash games with tons of tokens and decks. What Eurogames are more complicated than your layout? Maybe Agricola or Scythe?

IMO, Your layout should be intuitive (not that that opinion seems to be shared by many games!) so you could playtest the game with cards and tokens, and see how the players keep track of everything. Do they put the pieces in front of them? Do they place them in the playing area? If you have the buildings freestanding (ie. no board), see how the players position the buildings to keep track of information.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Heslop
msg tools
I'm well aware of the fact that the game is component heavy, therfore trying to think of a smart solution.

I really like the idea of having it displayed by dice. However, custom dice would mean additional costs in terms of production.

One token per building, as described in my former post, is as good as it get's in terms of accessibility and intuitivity as well as reducing the components.

Could someone please tell me how to add external graphics (didn't work with an imgur link), would make it easier to explain what I'm trying to achieve.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Don Riddle
United States
Leesburg
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Iggn wrote:
I'm well aware of the fact that the game is component heavy, therfore trying to think of a smart solution.

I really like the idea of having it displayed by dice. However, custom dice would mean additional costs in terms of production.

One token per building, as described in my former post, is as good as it get's in terms of accessibility and intuitivity as well as reducing the components.

Could someone please tell me how to add external graphics (didn't work with an imgur link), would make it easier to explain what I'm trying to achieve.

Dice wouldn't have to be custom. As I laid out in my post above, just assign each numerical value a meaning.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Heslop
msg tools
riddle13 wrote:

Dice wouldn't have to be custom. As I laid out in my post above, just assign each numerical value a meaning.


Well that would make it even more confusing/annoying for people to play.

This is what I've come up with for now. http://imgur.com/a/TR8oK
What do you think? The interface would be printed on the board and the ring would mark the current state.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Don Riddle
United States
Leesburg
Unspecified
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
Iggn wrote:
riddle13 wrote:

Dice wouldn't have to be custom. As I laid out in my post above, just assign each numerical value a meaning.


Well that would make it even more confusing/annoying for people to play.

This is what I've come up with for now. http://imgur.com/a/TR8oK
What do you think? The interface would be printed on the board and the ring would mark the current state.


Looks fine. But you'll still need 16 ring tokens.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bojan Prakljacic
msg tools
Dude, don't worry about high number of game components. If the game is good, no one will care. As long it's not too fiddly, its ok.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
A Twu
United States
California
flag msg tools
designer
Thematically I would go with tiles with different art for each of the 3 levels. It's a lot more satisfying and can to see the building get bigger, versus simply acquire a token, rotate a die, or have a slider move on a track off to the side.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Schroeder
United States
Maryland
flag msg tools
designer
mbmb
firstcultural wrote:
Thematically I would go with tiles with different art for each of the 3 levels. It's a lot more satisfying and can to see the building get bigger, versus simply acquire a token, rotate a die, or have a slider move on a track off to the side.


I agree. Also, I'm assuming different levels have different effects and having separate tiles or cards for each level removes a mental translation step for the players since all that would be shown is the current effect.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Zagieboylo
United States
Austin
Texas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I admit I am making assumptions here, but the way you've described it suggests the following mechanics:
1 Buildings have 3 levels of upgrade: bronze, silver, and gold. These levels make the building better or provide it with more awesome or whatever. The building starts at bronze (there is no "empty lot" level).
2 In order to upgrade a building to the next level, players must first "research" that level. This research provides no benefits except the right to upgrade the building for real at some later time. (This seems to be some sort of tax on upgrading, in that it costs 2 actions and 2 sets of resources to upgrade a building.)
3 Gold research cannot be done before the silver level is actually built.

If this understanding is in error, apologies; please explain further because this game sounds interesting. Given these facts, I would represent this mechanic as follows:
1 The board is printed with all bronze buildings, with the iconography for the bronze powers, plus perhaps the costs for research and upgrading, if they differ from building to building.
2 Silver and gold buildings are double-sided cardboard tiles, with appropriate iconography.
3 There is a stock of undifferentiated "research" tokens. When a building is researched, put a token on it. Only a building with a token on it can be upgraded to the next level, which removes the token. Technically you might need 16 research tokens, but I'm betting you can get away with, like, 4 or 5. (A limit here could even be an intentional mechanic, although I feel like there are few situations in which it would be efficient to leave a large number of researches unupgraded even without the limit.) So you can afford to make them impressive e.g. shiny foil-covered tokens a'la Dominion: Intrigue.

The trick here is that since research doesn't really get you anything except acknowledgement that you paid the tax, the research tokens don't have to be different for different buildings, or even for different levels. I recognize your complaint that tokens would obscure something printed on the board or tiles, but I think a single small token per building shouldn't be too oppressive if you already have player and/or enemy pawns walking around.

Keep it up though, this game sounds fun!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.