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Based upon my poor understanding of history, science, and ethics...
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Columbian voters rejected the FARC deal. This deal to end the Columbian civil war has been in negotiations for years. Was expected to win handily.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-colombia-peace-idUSKCN1230...

Colombia's government and Marxist guerrillas scrambled on Monday to revive a plan to end their 52-year war after voters rejected the hard-negotiated deal as too lenient on the rebels in a shock referendum result that plunged the nation into uncertainty.

Any renegotiated peace accord now seems to depend on whether the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) could accept some tougher sanctions against them.

"No" voters, who narrowly won Sunday's plebiscite, want assurances the rebels will hand in cash from drugs, spend time in jail, and earn their political future at the ballot box rather than get guaranteed unelected seats in Congress
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J
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It's a sad day for peace. I hope they are able to come to an agreement rather than back to war.
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J.D. Hall
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Shame they voted against it. Yes, FARC committed atrocities, sold drugs, extorted money through kidnapping, etc. But sometimes, if you want a durable peace, you have to let the past go. Otherwise, you end up like the Middle East.
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Chapel
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It sounds like FARC wanted too many concessions and immunity for past transgressions, and the people didn't like that idea.
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Steven Woodcock
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Koldfoot wrote:
Columbian voters rejected the FARC deal. This deal to end the Columbian civil war has been in negotiations for years. Was expected to win handily.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-colombia-peace-idUSKCN1230...

Colombia's government and Marxist guerrillas scrambled on Monday to revive a plan to end their 52-year war after voters rejected the hard-negotiated deal as too lenient on the rebels in a shock referendum result that plunged the nation into uncertainty.

Any renegotiated peace accord now seems to depend on whether the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) could accept some tougher sanctions against them.

"No" voters, who narrowly won Sunday's plebiscite, want assurances the rebels will hand in cash from drugs, spend time in jail, and earn their political future at the ballot box rather than get guaranteed unelected seats in Congress


Good for them.....the assurances the public was looking for were more than reasonable. It's quite interesting as you say that it was rejected; I'd expected it to pass handily enough.

Peace at any price isn't worth anything at all.



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Based upon my poor understanding of history, science, and ethics...
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jmilum wrote:
It's a sad day for peace. I hope they are able to come to an agreement rather than back to war.


I was certain you would twist it into a referendum of support for Marxist guerrillas.

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Sam I am
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What did I tell you...
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Just when I thought my copy of Andean Abyss was going to become obsolete.
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J
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In this same line of thought: were the terms for the Confederate States also too lax? I wonder how it would have turned out if those were put to a vote.
 
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Ben Foy
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I don't blame the Columbian people. Anyone getting guaranteed seats in an election seems very risky. Next thing you know, the ruling party will be giving itself guaranteed seats.
 
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J.D. Hall
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jmilum wrote:
In this same line of thought: were the terms for the Confederate States also too lax? I wonder how it would have turned out if those were put to a vote.

That's totally different:

CSA -- white guys
FARC -- brown guys
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Marcel
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Koldfoot wrote:
Columbian voters rejected the FARC deal. This deal to end the Columbian civil war has been in negotiations for years. Was expected to win handily.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-colombia-peace-idUSKCN1230...

Colombia's government and Marxist guerrillas scrambled on Monday to revive a plan to end their 52-year war after voters rejected the hard-negotiated deal as too lenient on the rebels in a shock referendum result that plunged the nation into uncertainty.

Any renegotiated peace accord now seems to depend on whether the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) could accept some tougher sanctions against them.

"No" voters, who narrowly won Sunday's plebiscite, want assurances the rebels will hand in cash from drugs, spend time in jail, and earn their political future at the ballot box rather than get guaranteed unelected seats in Congress

What i do not understand is why they let a couple of people from the USA vote on this. Maybe if they had voted in Colombia it would have gone better.
Interesingly I did just find out that about half of the US states have a Columbia. Then the Canadians have British Columbia, but I have not found any Columbia in South America.


I also recomend that you read up on this Adidas commercial scandal during the Copa America last June.

I have several Colombian friends and I know how annoyed they get with people not able to spell a very simple country name correctly.
 
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Tom McVey
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MWChapel wrote:
It sounds like FARC wanted too many concessions and immunity for past transgressions, and the people didn't like that idea.


Sometimes peace has to take precedence over justice.

The UK Government, including the Tories who, *had their 1984 party convention bombed by the Provisional IRA*, less than two decades later accepted the former Chief of Army Staff of the Provisional IRA being Deputy First Minister in Northern Ireland.

Or the perpetrators of murders and torture under Apartheid walking free in return for testimony to the truth and reconciliation committee.

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J.D. Hall
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tmcvey wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
It sounds like FARC wanted too many concessions and immunity for past transgressions, and the people didn't like that idea.


Sometimes peace has to take precedence over justice.

The UK Government, including the Tories who, *had their 1984 party convention bombed by the Provisional IRA*, less than two decades later accepted the former Chief of Army Staff of the Provisional IRA being Deputy First Minister in Northern Ireland.

Or the perpetrators of murders and torture under Apartheid walking free in return for testimony to the truth and reconciliation committee.


But...but...Marxists! Communists!

Worse than that -- Bernie Sanders' Socialists!!!

The horror...
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BFoy wrote:
I don't blame the Columbian people. Anyone getting guaranteed seats in an election seems very risky. Next thing you know, the ruling party will be giving itself guaranteed seats.

It was limited:

Quote:
Colombia’s FARC rebels will take part in the 2018 elections as a formal political party, but this is mainly a political warm-up. The guerrillas will receive five guaranteed seats in both the Senate and the House.

According to the peace deal presented to the public Wednesday, to facilitate the groups transition from an illegal armed group to a political party, the FARC will be guaranteed these seats until the 2026 elections.

The Columbian Congress has 102 Senators and 166 Representatives
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Chapel
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tmcvey wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
It sounds like FARC wanted too many concessions and immunity for past transgressions, and the people didn't like that idea.


Sometimes peace has to take precedence over justice.

The UK Government, including the Tories who, *had their 1984 party convention bombed by the Provisional IRA*, less than two decades later accepted the former Chief of Army Staff of the Provisional IRA being Deputy First Minister in Northern Ireland.

Or the perpetrators of murders and torture under Apartheid walking free in return for testimony to the truth and reconciliation committee.



Only if the people will it. Which they did not. Maybe the wound is too new. Who knows. BUT I am glad they left that decision in the hands of the people, and not forced down their throats by the ruling elite. Which is how FARC would have wanted it.

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Walt
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Koldfoot wrote:
I was certain you would twist it into a referendum of support for Marxist guerrillas.

But what's wrong with Marxist gorillas?

They're a lot funnier than ordinary gorillas!
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Lynette
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jmilum wrote:
In this same line of thought: were the terms for the Confederate States also too lax? I wonder how it would have turned out if those were put to a vote.


I don't see these as being similar at all.

The confederate states were fully part of the government before the Civil war and they needed to become part of it again after the Civil War for obvious reasons. Though it did take time and they had to ratify certain constitutional provisions before they could be re-admitted fully into the Federal System.




 
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Meerkat wrote:
jmilum wrote:
In this same line of thought: were the terms for the Confederate States also too lax? I wonder how it would have turned out if those were put to a vote.


I don't see these as being similar at all.

The confederate states were fully part of the government before the Civil war and they needed to become part of it again after the Civil War for obvious reasons. Though it did take time and they had to ratify certain constitutional provisions before they could be re-admitted fully into the Federal System.

I think there are some similarities, saying none at all is a bit too far. But the question still stands regardless of the similarities: were the terms given to the Confederacy too lax?
 
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Ben Foy
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jmilum wrote:
BFoy wrote:
I don't blame the Columbian people. Anyone getting guaranteed seats in an election seems very risky. Next thing you know, the ruling party will be giving itself guaranteed seats.

It was limited:

Quote:
Colombia’s FARC rebels will take part in the 2018 elections as a formal political party, but this is mainly a political warm-up. The guerrillas will receive five guaranteed seats in both the Senate and the House.

According to the peace deal presented to the public Wednesday, to facilitate the groups transition from an illegal armed group to a political party, the FARC will be guaranteed these seats until the 2026 elections.

The Columbian Congress has 102 Senators and 166 Representatives


It is a precedent. Something a future tyrant could exploit.
 
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jmilum wrote:
I think there are some similarities, saying none at all is a bit too far. But the question still stands regardless of the similarities: were the terms given to the Confederacy too lax?

Are we talking the official terms or the unofficial ones, which included carpetbaggers backed by federal troops?

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Les Marshall
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jmilum wrote:
It's a sad day for peace. I hope they are able to come to an agreement rather than back to war.


Perhaps, but it also draws a rather stark contrast between justice and peace at all costs. I don't imagine American voters would readily ceded unelected seats in Congress to those viewed as drug runners and violent extremists. The million dollar question is what will FARC do now?
 
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Marcel
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jmilum wrote:

The Columbian Congress has 102 Senators and 166 Representatives

Even small towns in the USA have a congress that big? I knew US politics were complicated, but not that complicated.
 
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Robert Wesley
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jmilum wrote:
The Columbian Congress has 102 Senators and 166 Representatives
mag74b wrote:
Even small towns in the USA have a congress that big? I knew US politics were complicated, but not that complicated.
wow ~"It's Colombia, we're NOT going to Moscow, it'll be the same as going to Wisconsin!"
surprise ~I 'got' my ASS-kicked in Wisconsin!"
~"I have a PLAN!"
~"Great, Custer had a PLAN too!"
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tmcvey wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
It sounds like FARC wanted too many concessions and immunity for past transgressions, and the people didn't like that idea.


Sometimes peace has to take precedence over justice.

The UK Government, including the Tories who, *had their 1984 party convention bombed by the Provisional IRA*, less than two decades later accepted the former Chief of Army Staff of the Provisional IRA being Deputy First Minister in Northern Ireland.

Or the perpetrators of murders and torture under Apartheid walking free in return for testimony to the truth and reconciliation committee.

Right, there is a point at which you have to say that in order to achieve peace (not that we have it in Ireland, it's just that it is now just die hard nutters planting the bombs) you have to let some crimes go.

 
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SPIGuy wrote:
jmilum wrote:
I think there are some similarities, saying none at all is a bit too far. But the question still stands regardless of the similarities: were the terms given to the Confederacy too lax?

Are we talking the official terms or the unofficial ones, which included carpetbaggers backed by federal troops?


Official, of course
 
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