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Clinton seriously asks.

Quote:

“Can’t we just drone this guy?” Clinton openly inquired, offering a simple remedy to silence Assange and smother Wikileaks via a planned military drone strike, according to State Department sources. The statement drew laughter from the room which quickly died off when the Secretary kept talking in a terse manner, sources said. Clinton said Assange, after all, was a relatively soft target, “walking around” freely and thumbing his nose without any fear of reprisals from the United States. Clinton was upset about Assange’s previous 2010 records releases, divulging secret U.S. documents about the war in Afghanistan in July and the war in Iraq just a month earlier in October, sources said. At that time in 2010, Assange was relatively free and not living cloistered in in the embassy of Ecuador in London. Prior to 2010, Assange focused Wikileaks’ efforts on countries outside the United States but now under Clinton and Obama, Assange was hammering America with an unparalleled third sweeping Wikileaks document dump in five months. Clinton was fuming, sources said, as each State Department cable dispatched during the Obama administration was signed by her.


http://truepundit.com/under-intense-pressure-to-silence-wiki...
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Sam I am
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Who said HRC was a "peacemaker"?
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J.D. Hall
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Is he an American citizen? No? And he's fucking with America?

Yeah, we've droned guys for less. It would have been bad policy, though.

Funny thing is, though, Assange is still wandering around somewhere, reassured by his mum back in Straya that he just the most wonderful, perfect person around and is doing the best thing ever. Guess the drone missed him?

Edit: Assange is also not a journalist. He is a provocateur at best.
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Lee Fisher
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http://www.snopes.com/julian-assange-drone-strike/
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rcbevco wrote:
Who said HRC was a "peacemaker"?


Yeah, that's pretty much the left's biggest objection to her--she has an expansive view of the allowable scope of force. Which is the only tiny piece of credibility an article on "truepundit.com" has when it claims "sources said".
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I've got a bridge I want to sell you.

Whack job blog citing anonymous sources. Pretty legit.
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lfisher wrote:


Ah--even better.

But how about this as a fallback: would you like to bring the conversation around to the troubling fact that this lie is reasonably plausible? Clinton's not given to seat-of-the-pants winging it, so that element doesn't ring true, but she does seem to advocate the drone policies of this administration, and even to support their use against people who communicate ideas and ideology rather than fight directly (including American citizens like Al-Awlaki). So the only thing I can see which makes the Assange targeting a bridge too far is politics.

If we wanted to turn this into a productive conversation about the apprpriate scope of force, and what civilian safeguards on military action there should be, I'd be interested in reading that.
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J.D. Hall
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rinelk wrote:
lfisher wrote:


Ah--even better.

But how about this as a fallback: would you like to bring the conversation around to the troubling fact that this lie is reasonably plausible? Clinton's not given to seat-of-the-pants winging it, so that element doesn't ring true, but she does seem to advocate the drone policies of this administration, and even to support their use against people who communicate ideas and ideology rather than fight directly (including American citizens like Al-Awlaki). So the only thing I can see which makes the Assange targeting a bridge too far is politics.

If we wanted to turn this into a productive conversation about the apprpriate scope of force, and what civilian safeguards on military action there should be, I'd be interested in reading that.


This is RSP, dickface. Productive conversations are prohibited.
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Too legit.
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I wouldn't be surprised if she said it. She might not have been serious though. It's not like she hasn't joked about killing people before.



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Funny to see Assange dignified with the title "journalist"...
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wifwendell wrote:
Funny to see Assange dignified with the title "journalist"...


I know, right? Other people take all the big risks gathering sensitive information. Then they turn it over to Assange and he posts it on a web site. How is that journalism?
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Drew1365 wrote:
lfisher wrote:


Linking to Snopes is like linking to Media Matters.


Yep. Both are credible sites.
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rinelk wrote:
But how about this as a fallback: would you like to bring the conversation around to the troubling fact that this lie is reasonably plausible?


It's only "reasonably plausible" to wingnuts. The fact that you're thinking like a wingnut is certainly troubling!! Give me a fucking break. To an ordinary human being this is about as plausible as a US drone strike on Mitch McConnell, or Vladimir Putin. It's pretty damn easy to list the reasons no one would do that, even if they wanted to.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
rinelk wrote:
But how about this as a fallback: would you like to bring the conversation around to the troubling fact that this lie is reasonably plausible?


It's only "reasonably plausible" to wingnuts. The fact that you're thinking like a wingnut is certainly troubling!! Give me a fucking break. To an ordinary human being this is about as plausible as a US drone strike on Mitch McConnell, or Vladimir Putin. It's pretty damn easy to list the reasons no one would do that, even if they wanted to.


Reasons not to drone assassinate Mitch McConnell:
1. He's a decent human being.
2. He keeps the senate engaged in the business of governing.
3. He's absolutely not a turtle.
4. Okay, fine, it's a terrible precedent and a moral evil.
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rinelk wrote:
Reasons not to drone assassinate Mitch McConnell:
1. He's a decent human being.
2. He keeps the senate engaged in the business of governing.
3. He's absolutely not a turtle.
4. Okay, fine, it's a terrible precedent and a moral evil.


No, not the precedent even, but the consequences. We still do live in a democracy, with laws, and courts, and elections. You may think that the US public should be up in arms about the US killing terrorists who are trying to kill us. But they aren't, but they sure would be if we started assassinating random civilians whom the President doesn't like.
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DaviddesJ wrote:
rinelk wrote:
Reasons not to drone assassinate Mitch McConnell:
1. He's a decent human being.
2. He keeps the senate engaged in the business of governing.
3. He's absolutely not a turtle.
4. Okay, fine, it's a terrible precedent and a moral evil.


No, not the precedent even, but the consequences. We still do live in a democracy, with laws, and courts, and elections. You may think that the US public should be up in arms about the US killing terrorists who are trying to kill us. But they aren't, but they sure would be if we started assassinating random civilians whom the President doesn't like.


No, no, of course not! Not RANDOM civilians. The aforementioned Anwar Al-Awlaki, though, is okay. And his son, in a separate drone strike justified by a really earnest shrug. So I grant that there are some civilians we couldn't drone assassinate without public repercussions, and that McConnell is one, but it absolutely does seem to be possible to murder an American citizen engaged in no terrorism without a meaningful public outcry.
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wifwendell wrote:
Funny to see Assange dignified with the title "journalist"...


Wasn't it rapist just a few months ago? Are there Journalist-Rapists?

 
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rinelk wrote:
The aforementioned Anwar Al-Awlaki, though, is okay. And his son, in a separate drone strike justified by a really earnest shrug. So I grant that there are some civilians we couldn't drone assassinate without public repercussions, and that McConnell is one, but it absolutely does seem to be possible to murder an American citizen engaged in no terrorism without a meaningful public outcry.


I can't tell what you're claiming. Some people argue that killing people like Al-Awlaki is not a good idea, but even the strongest opponents don't deny he was engaged in terrorism. Is that really your claim?

His son was killed in a strike at another terrorist. That's not the same as being targeted.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
rinelk wrote:
The aforementioned Anwar Al-Awlaki, though, is okay. And his son, in a separate drone strike justified by a really earnest shrug. So I grant that there are some civilians we couldn't drone assassinate without public repercussions, and that McConnell is one, but it absolutely does seem to be possible to murder an American citizen engaged in no terrorism without a meaningful public outcry.


I can't tell what you're claiming. Some people argue that killing people like Al-Awlaki is not a good idea, but even the strongest opponents don't deny he was engaged in terrorism. Is that really your claim?

His son was killed in a strike at another terrorist. That's not the same as being targeted.


I had read that Al-Awlaki advocated fighting the US, but didn't actually do anything to cause it, nor engaged in any terrorism personally. But I'll do a bit of research.

EDIT: it sounds from his Wikipedia page like the public has no access to information which indicates he was a terrorist, but that intelligence officials alleged he was involved with planning some attacks. His son was supposedly killed by accident, but the target they claimed they sought when they killed him wasn't present. That, combined with the fact that he was killed just two weeks after his father, looks pretty bad to me. I don't think it's impossible that his death was a mistake, but I suspect it was intentional.
 
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rinelk wrote:
I had read that Al-Awlaki advocated fighting the US, but didn't actually do anything to cause it, nor engaged in any terrorism personally.


I count urging people to attack and kill Americans as "engaged in terrorism". I think most Americans feel the same way.

Quote:
I don't think it's impossible that his death was a mistake, but I suspect it was intentional.


To what purpose, do you suspect? Just to piss you off?
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:
rinelk wrote:
I had read that Al-Awlaki advocated fighting the US, but didn't actually do anything to cause it, nor engaged in any terrorism personally.


I count urging people to attack and kill Americans as "engaged in terrorism". I think most Americans feel the same way.


Ah! I think I misunderstood. I thought you were saying that Americans would be up in arms if the people we were killing were actual terrorists, who were known to have participated in attacks or attempts. This guy just thought (and said) that attacking America was justified; there appears to be no public information that he urged people to attack and kill any particular Americans in any particular way. But if you're instead saying only that Americans would be up in arms if the people we were killing didn't feel like terrorists to us, well, even that's wrong because we're fine with collateral damage radically exceeding targets killed. So I'd nuance that slightly to say that if we didn't claim the people we were trying to kill were people the public felt like were terrorists, they might object.

DaviddesJ wrote:
Quote:
I don't think it's impossible that his death was a mistake, but I suspect it was intentional.


To what purpose, do you suspect? Just to piss you off?


To prevent him becoming a sympathetic symbol for anti-American sentiment. I imagine he could have had millions of followers overnight if he had wanted them and continued preaching his father's message. Even if he personally never committed, planned, or funded terrorism, he could do a lot of damage to U.S. interests by talking about how we would happily break our own laws to kill his dad, and nobody cared because he had an Arabic name.
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Stephen Rost
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Just to be prudent, I say we give Hillary her Noble Peace Prize now, before she has the chance to accumulate some real drone strike blood on her hands.
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rinelk wrote:
I thought you were saying that Americans would be up in arms if the people we were killing were actual terrorists, who were known to have participated in attacks or attempts.


I feel like there must be a "not" missing somewhere in this sentence.

Quote:
This guy just thought (and said) that attacking America was justified; there appears to be no public information that he urged people to attack and kill any particular Americans in any particular way.


The memo claims they have evidence. So you're assuming the government is lying. But even if they are lying, yes, I think Americans think it's fine to kill people who are leaders of groups rallying people to come murder them, even if those people aren't actively involved in the planning. So I think what the American people are comfortable with is actually more than what the government allows itself.

Quote:
But if you're instead saying only that Americans would be up in arms if the people we were killing didn't feel like terrorists to us, well, even that's wrong because we're fine with collateral damage radically exceeding targets killed.


Again you assert facts without evidence. No one is fine with collateral damage much out of proportion to targeted damage. Most Americans believe what the government says, that the collateral damage is relatively small compared to the targets hit. Again, you think the government is either lying or mistaken, but you have to know that most people don't share that belief.

Quote:
To prevent him becoming a sympathetic symbol for anti-American sentiment.


Well, it seems to have had the opposite effect. So you're assuming that our government is filled top to bottom not just with liars, but stupid liars.
 
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Robert Wesley
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She certainly could just SAY that she'll 'cease & desist' further ones! whistle
 
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