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Subject: Enemy vehicles shooting from their rears? rss

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Oscar Cameselle
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So I stumble upon this hull down unidentified SPG looking away from me.
During the Enemy Action Phase dice roll goes for "Fire- Any Tank", but I'm pretty sure the rules state that the whole allied force is assumed to occupy the same space I'm in (the "hub").
Now how do you deal with that?
Is the SPG shooting at some straggler tank idly going for a ride elsewhere?
Or does he turn around strikingly fast and spits fire against the hub losing his hull down condition along the way?
 
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Ryan
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As the rules acknowledge, the battle board is a very abstract representation of the battlefield. The close range represents up to several hundred yards (exact number escapes me) and the long range zone may be up to one mile from the hub. I think it best to view this odd occurrence as an abstraction as well.

I look at the vehicle facing as being "as stated" by the facing chart when my Sherman fires at it. At any other time, it may occupy another position, or move back and forth trying to find a better position. The way I "tell the story" in such an occurrence is that the vehicle moved to gain a firing position, took a shot, and later has moved to a rear facing position again by the time my Sherman fires at it.

It is an oddity for sure, I just try not to make it more complex than needed. I certainly wouldn't change any rules, though I suppose you could roll for a new facing after an SPG conducts such an attack if it made the event more plausible in your mind?
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Oscar Cameselle
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OK, now I see this question addressed in the article "Improving on Patton's Best" from The General magazine, where specifically points out the cases when enemy vehicles fire at you. I may follow this path from now on, just makes more sense to me.
As for the situation I was describing (firing on other tanks in my force), and for the sake of simplicity, maybe I'll stick with the basic rules: perhaps there are other Shermans around the area that I'm not aware of, after all (and I simply can't find where the rules refer the whole of my task force occupying the hub).
So be it, I can live with that.
Of course, different points of view are always welcome, you guys.
 
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Ryan
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Oscar,

A fellow player and I had a brief discussion about the variant rules in that article, "Improving Patton's Best". It is located at the link below. I'm not sure it will be of much value to you, but just in case. The comment following mine is a reply to my comment in the link.

Comment from the 4th Armored Division's Campaign through Europe

Oh, and check out the geeklist in case you have any interest in it's purpose...it would be nice to have another recruit!

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Oscar Cameselle
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I can see your point here, Ryan.
Certainly agree with you on the subject of SPGs being less lethal, but maybe not that much. Specially in battle scenarios, where an enemy vehicle is going to fire 66% of the times (plus, even in case of moving, 5/6 of ten times it will get front facing), so not unlikely at all that it will keep its sights on your task force.
Now back to my previous example. You suggest the SPG leaves its position, turns around, fires on my task force, then turns around again and reaches hull down position... pointing away from the task force! I understand the abstraction and all that, but man, this just doesn't make any sense to me.
On the other hand, if I turn the enemy unit towards the hub in order to shoot (with or without penalties/forfeiting first chance of fire), and keep it that way, the SPG lose the hull down condition all right, but now it's offering me the front (lethal and much less vulnerable). I'd better move now or start pumping smoke like crazy!
Just thinking aloud, you now.
By the way, excuse my grammar, you noticed that already for sure.
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Edwin David Bliss
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magpie in the garden wrote:
You suggest the SPG leaves its position, turns around, fires on my task force, then turns around again and reaches hull down position... pointing away from the task force! I understand the abstraction and all that, but man, this just doesn't make any sense to me.

All those suggested moves before and after firing, mean it has moved rather a lot , whilst your tank does nothing...No dice !

Quote:
On the other hand, if I turn the enemy unit towards the hub in order to shoot (with or without penalties/forfeiting first chance of fire), and keep it that way, the SPG lose the hull down condition all right, but now it's offering me the front (lethal and much less vulnerable). I'd better move now or start pumping smoke like crazy!

Makes more sense to me.
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Edwin David Bliss
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magpie in the garden wrote:
Or does he turn around strikingly fast and spits fire against the hub losing his hull down condition along the way?

That's how it plays ( per the rules...)whistle

Don't be afraid to change the rules ( where someone else has suggested a change ) or incorporate an optional rule ( or "three" !! ) that has been put forward.
This game has far too many errors and "loopholes" that cannot be dealt with any other way ! Do what you are happy with ...

[ I have made approx. 50 rule book adjustments / clarifications ; and approx. the same amount of adjustments / clarifications to the cards and board ( not including adjustments to the abbreviated sequence of play on the board ). ]

Some people on this forum prefer to make very few ( if any ) adjustments at all, and ignore the "unreal" results that follow...
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Oscar Cameselle
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DEB8 wrote:

[ I have made approx. 50 rule book adjustments / clarifications ; and approx. the same amount of adjustments / clarifications to the cards and board ( not including adjustments to the abbreviated sequence of play on the board ). ]


I know, I've merciless benefitted from them whistle

Sure this otherwise great game needs some tailoring in order to cover the gaps in the rulebook. By no means I'm trying to stand my ground here, just hearing you out for arguments and thoughts in one direction or another, which I much appreciate.

 
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Tom Kaiser
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Any way to get a copy of your mods or is it in a file here? Thanks in advance.
 
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Edwin David Bliss
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hwtrtgp wrote:
Any way to get a copy of your mods or is it in a file here? Thanks in advance.

I take this was a question to me ?

I am afraid there is no quick solution to your query as I am unable to "copy" or "publish" my mods, so they are not available to anyone directly.

The only way to pick these all up, is to read all of the PB forum threads ( looking out for my comments etc. ).

[ To help slightly, you should note that I have posted a few threads ( 3 ) re errors in the Rules, on the Battle Board and on the various cards. Also some more ( 6 ) re general rule "observations." Each of the 3 threads may ( or may not ) have various addendum's ( re further errors ) re items noted at a later date ( by myself or others ). ]


 
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Tom Kaiser
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I thought I was sending this by an email system. Thanks for the explanation.
 
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