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Subject: The Moral Machine rss

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David Kahnt
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You know, they say there was a man who jumped from the forty-FIFTH floor? But that's another story...
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http://moralmachine.mit.edu/

options can be clicked to view... but click picture to choose.

-DK
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Billy McBoatface
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So I picked by what I thought were the most reasonable choices:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
1. Ignore animals deaths completely.
2. Prefer killing passengers in the car vs. outside people (on the idea that people who get in the car made a choice to risk the deadly car, those outside did not).
3. Prefer driving straight and killing people vs. curving crazily and killing people (on the idea that this will be a more predictable car, more likely for people to properly jump out of the way and maybe live).

But despite my simple rules, the way the test was designed, their conclusion was that I never killed babies or doctors, don't like killing women, and prefer to kill fat people.

Well, OK, if that's what I did, that's what I did.
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Wendell
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Apparently, I don't like old people.
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Chapel
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Spoiler (click to reveal)
1. I always picked save people over animals
2. Always picked save Pedestrians over riders.
3. Always picked save youth over elderly.

in that order of precedence.
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Based upon my poor understanding of history, science, and ethics...
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In case of sudden brake failure you lay on the horn and slam the car into a lower gear, or into park.

Tests like this are designed to scare people of self driving cars. There are better reasons to be wary of self driving cars.

In case of sudden brake failure a computerized car can do all of those things faster than a human.

Never mind that sudden brake failure in a modern car is a near statistical impossibility because the front and rear brakes are completely separate systems specifically designed to eliminate the possibility.

A dipshit may drive a car knowing one set of brakes has malfunctioned, then have the other set go out, but a self driving car could be programmed to not operate in those circumstances. That is the point real world morality enters the picture, and no one is against those safeguards.
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Matt Riddle
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MWChapel wrote:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
1. I always picked save people over animals
2. Always picked save Pedestrians over riders.
3. Always picked save youth over elderly.

in that order of precedence.


same
 
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Walt
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Koldfoot wrote:
In case of sudden brake failure you lay on the horn and slam the car into a lower gear, or into park.

Tests like this are designed to scare people of self driving cars. There are better reasons to be wary of self driving cars.

In case of sudden brake failure a computerized car can do all of those things faster than a human.

Never mind that sudden brake failure in a modern car is a near statistical impossibility because the front and rear brakes are completely separate systems specifically designed to eliminate the possibility.

I agree, though I think the brake systems are split diagonally; front wheel drive cars are very nose heavy, so putting both front wheels on the same system isn't a good idea. Also:

• Emergency/parking brake
• An electric car can run its motors backwards to brake
• A computer could override the reverse interlock, and run the drive wheels in reverse, which would damage the transmission, but....
• The car could be driven into the concrete side barrier slowing and stopping it--unless the side barrier is Teflon or something (and why would it be?)

So, my conclusion is that this really about testing values of the various people and animals, not really about car morality. But, I think it's seriously inept since it doesn't even account for things like, "The driver is responsible for the state of their automobile."
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Mike Norris
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My most saved one was the female athlete, and most killed was the elderly woman.

If there was a dog present...it was eating car.

If there was a robber present...they were eating car.

And I guess I prefer women over men.

Well there you go. You now know if you ar in danger or not if my brakes go out.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Koldfoot wrote:
In case of sudden brake failure you lay on the horn and slam the car into a lower gear, or into park.

Tests like this are designed to scare people of self driving cars. There are better reasons to be wary of self driving cars.

In case of sudden brake failure a computerized car can do all of those things faster than a human.

Never mind that sudden brake failure in a modern car is a near statistical impossibility because the front and rear brakes are completely separate systems specifically designed to eliminate the possibility.

A dipshit may drive a car knowing one set of brakes has malfunctioned, then have the other set go out, but a self driving car could be programmed to not operate in those circumstances. That is the point real world morality enters the picture, and no one is against those safeguards.
Dead on, for example the first question I gave up on.

Where was the option to sacrifice myself, totally fake "moral" choices.
 
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Bryan Thunkd
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Personally, I find this whole thing disturbing. The idea that self-driving cars are going to identify people by groups, especially homeless people, and then make moral choices by that troubles me a great deal. Imagine the car selecting to save a group of business men in their fancy suits over a group of raggedly dressed homeless men.

I am not at all comfortable with this! You know what this means?!?! I'm going to have to start caring about fashion! I've prided myself on never caring what I wear except insofar as it is comfortable, and yes, I may have been mistaken for a homeless man now and again, but it's never been an issue until now (and occasionally has provided some loose change).

This is quite horrible! Who knew that they'd find a way to make wearing a tie have some real consequence? Fie on you Google!
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Dennis Ku
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I'm just excited about being able to properly eat a large, two-fisted burrito while my car drives me around town.
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Richard Hedke
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It seems I hate animals, the elderly, the overweight, and men wearing masks while carrying sacks of money. Kill them all and let God sort them out I say!
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shumyum
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Yay for "avoiding intervention"! I feel I have upheld my Iowa roots and/or am a perfect fit for Starfleet Academy.
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Billy McBoatface
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Thunkd wrote:
Personally, I find this whole thing disturbing. The idea that self-driving cars are going to identify people by groups, especially homeless people, and then make moral choices by that troubles me a great deal. Imagine the car selecting to save a group of business men in their fancy suits over a group of raggedly dressed homeless men.

I am not at all comfortable with this! You know what this means?!?! I'm going to have to start caring about fashion! I've prided myself on never caring what I wear except insofar as it is comfortable, and yes, I may have been mistaken for a homeless man now and again, but it's never been an issue until now (and occasionally has provided some loose change).

This is quite horrible! Who knew that they'd find a way to make wearing a tie have some real consequence? Fie on you Google!

I think this is more about moral choices of people than about driverless cars.

It isn't "should cars prefer to kill homeless people over businessmen," it's the question of do people prefer to kill one over the other that the researchers are interested in.

I agree - you can't judge one life as more valuable than another just by looking at them in the street. That's why the rules I followed for this quiz (see above) totally took that out.
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shumyum
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Well, I think I agree with McBoatface: I answered the questions from a more legal point of view combined with the fact that even if you COULD program a car to distinguish (in a split second) an old man from a pregnant woman, you probably SHOULDN'T.

In other words, I picked the option that, after the aftermath, would most elicit the response "well, you can't blame the car...what was it supposed to do?". This is why my answers skewed toward "avoids intervention".

I'm sure there is are big holes in this logic (or ethics), but that's how I answered.
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Bryan Thunkd
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wmshub wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
Personally, I find this whole thing disturbing. The idea that self-driving cars are going to identify people by groups, especially homeless people, and then make moral choices by that troubles me a great deal. Imagine the car selecting to save a group of business men in their fancy suits over a group of raggedly dressed homeless men.

I am not at all comfortable with this! You know what this means?!?! I'm going to have to start caring about fashion! I've prided myself on never caring what I wear except insofar as it is comfortable, and yes, I may have been mistaken for a homeless man now and again, but it's never been an issue until now (and occasionally has provided some loose change).

This is quite horrible! Who knew that they'd find a way to make wearing a tie have some real consequence? Fie on you Google!

I think this is more about moral choices of people than about driverless cars.

It isn't "should cars prefer to kill homeless people over businessmen," it's the question of do people prefer to kill one over the other that the researchers are interested in.

I agree - you can't judge one life as more valuable than another just by looking at them in the street.
Reread what I wrote. Hopefully when you realize that I expressed absolutely no moral outrage at the idea of killing homeless men over businessmen, but only that it might force me to dress up a bit, you'll get that it was a joke.
 
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Billy McBoatface
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Thunkd wrote:
wmshub wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
Personally, I find this whole thing disturbing. The idea that self-driving cars are going to identify people by groups, especially homeless people, and then make moral choices by that troubles me a great deal. Imagine the car selecting to save a group of business men in their fancy suits over a group of raggedly dressed homeless men.

I am not at all comfortable with this! You know what this means?!?! I'm going to have to start caring about fashion! I've prided myself on never caring what I wear except insofar as it is comfortable, and yes, I may have been mistaken for a homeless man now and again, but it's never been an issue until now (and occasionally has provided some loose change).

This is quite horrible! Who knew that they'd find a way to make wearing a tie have some real consequence? Fie on you Google!

I think this is more about moral choices of people than about driverless cars.

It isn't "should cars prefer to kill homeless people over businessmen," it's the question of do people prefer to kill one over the other that the researchers are interested in.

I agree - you can't judge one life as more valuable than another just by looking at them in the street.
Reread what I wrote. Hopefully when you realize that I expressed absolutely no moral outrage at the idea of killing homeless men over businessmen, but only that it might force me to dress up a bit, you'll get that it was a joke.

I wasn't sure whether it was a joke or not, so I went the non-joke route. Your point is valid, whether your post is meant to be funny or not.
 
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David Sweat
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I protected children and destroyed cats. I tend to prefer overweight people, protected hoomans, the young, and women more than other groups. Passengers received no consideration in my judgments. The more lives saved, the better.

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¡dn ʇǝƃ ʇ,uɐɔ ı puɐ uǝllɐɟ ǝʌ,ı
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If it came down to crashing into the barrier or killing people on the street, I rammed the barrier every time.
If you had to kill people, I went straight no matter who or what was in front of me.

At one point, a dog was driving the car with a dog and two cats as passengers. That was odd, but I let the car crash into the barrier so crisis averted.
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Andy Andersen
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wifwendell wrote:
Apparently, I don't like old people.


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John Breckenridge
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I usually went for the people on the left, since they'd have a better shot at getting out of the way.

Although really I think the self-driving car should have turned toward the jersey barrier next to it in an attempt to eat up momentum and take longer to stop, possibly injuring its passengers but saving pedestrians.

I also wonder what would happen if it had tried to throw the transmission into reverse.
 
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Chris
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MABBY wrote:
If it came down to crashing into the barrier or killing people on the street, I rammed the barrier every time.
If you had to kill people, I went straight no matter who or what was in front of me.

At one point, a dog was driving the car with a dog and two cats as passengers. That was odd, but I let the car crash into the barrier so crisis averted.


Yea I wrecked the car when possible. People in a car are surrounded by a steel cage with seat belts and an airbag and are more likely to survive a crash. Pedestrians have nothing protecting them and are more likely to die.

My choices didn't care if it was a man/woman/child/old or fat. Wreck the care rather than hit the pedestrian. The only exception is kill an animal over a person.

Of course a computerized car is not going to have such binaries choices. Like Koldfoot said the odds of complete brake failure is small. There are also emergency brakes, downshifting, etc.
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Scott Lewis
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MABBY wrote:
At one point, a dog was driving the car with a dog and two cats as passengers.

Well, it's odd, but the dog wasn't driving The tests were all based on a "self driving car".


The conclusions this one reached made assumptions about my decisions, as if I was taking the age/gender/fitness of the people into consideration, which was not even something I entered. For one thing, when it talks about "social worth", how on earth is the car supposed to know that anyway? "I'll kill those people because they are criminals".

Number of people, and maybe relative size to guage age could be something a car would do, but scenarios based on subjective things like "worth" is unlikely to really be applicable to a car trying to make these decisions.
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¡dn ʇǝƃ ʇ,uɐɔ ı puɐ uǝllɐɟ ǝʌ,ı
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Bryan Thunkd
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Let it be noted that I'd swerve to take out any number of people if I thought it would cut down on the number of copycat threads in Chit Chat. There's nothing more annoying.
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