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Subject: What's up with Myth? rss

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I can't make up my mind on whether I should buy this? Who will like/hate Myth? Is it worth it in the 2.0 state, did the revision fix the problems? How much replay value is there in the core box. Do you "NEED" expansions, kind of like you do for Shadows of Brimstone? Can someone lecture me for a minute on Myth? I like co-op, fantasy, and campaign, but is this more of an "RPG lite" type of game? Are there meaningful choices?
 
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I will try to answer at least a few of your questions.

79strat wrote:
Who will like/hate Myth?


To me, Myth is a game for someone who is ready to make their own game. Myth provides a good set of rules and mechanics for players to build upon. There is no set "win condition" for the game and it's up to the players to determine what makes their play session successful.


79strat wrote:
Is it worth it in the 2.0 state, did the revision fix the problems?


It's a little hard for me to answer this question as I put in a lot of effort to understand the rules during the 1.0 rules. This means that by the time I got around to reading the 2.0 rules, I had a good idea of how things worked and could gloss over certain parts of the rule book. As a result, it's possible that there are parts that are still unclear that I missed because I already knew how they worked from reading the first rules.

However, I think that the keyword system for hero actions and item cards is much clearer and is a significant improvement from the first iteration.

79strat wrote:
How much replay value is there in the core box. Do you "NEED" expansions, kind of like you do for Shadows of Brimstone?


I think there is a decent amount of replayability within just the base box. There are only 2 monster factions but there's plenty of room to add challenge even with just the two factions. However, I will say that I think getting more factions is a very good idea. Even if it's just getting a set of 10 minions for hunting packs.

It should be noted that you can't get any additional factions at the moment while MERCs are getting a reprint of all their minis/they move their online store to a third party. If you do look for an additional faction, I would recommend the undead next. The mini-boss that comes with the base game makes reference to soulless (the captains for the undead) who can then summon shamblers.

79strat wrote:
I like co-op, fantasy, and campaign, but is this more of an "RPG lite" type of game?


I mostly describe Myth as DnD-lite. I believe some of the others here disagree with me. It's a hack-and-slash game akin to playing Diablo.

79strat wrote:
Are there meaningful choices?


There are a few attempts at this that I've seen from some of the quests in the quest decks. These have relatively minimal impact during a play session.

The new modules are going to have more decision-making I believe that can have lasting impacts on the rest of the module.


Overall, this is a game for those that don't mind putting some work into the game. However, there are tons and tons fan-made content that can be found both here as well as at megacongames.com.
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Tobias Loeffler
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If RPG-lite / story / choices / campaign is what you are looking for, don't buy MYTH. MYTH is a tactical minis game. Out of the box there are no choices, no ongoing story, no final goal, no end game, no campaign, no consistent, rpg-like way to upgrade your hero.

There are promises, hopes, community projects to add those things, but if you go out today and buy the base box it's not in it.

MCG has various play-throughs on their site and on youtube and you should watch those to get an impression of the actual gameplay. What you see there, is what you get. NOT more. There is no cool campaign, progression, rpg they're just not showing.

Then there are other things to consider:

- Expensive. Like other miniature-games, MYTH resolves around, well, minis and you will soon want more of them, because they bring varity to the game.
- Time consuming. A short scan through this forums will tell you, that there are A LOT of people, that still struggle to actually learn and play MYTH. This is a game that you will have to commit to or it will end up on your shelf.
- Exclusves: The game is a true child of the KS-area and bears all it's beauties and scars. There is a lot of stuff, you won't get your hands on unless you are willing to go ebay-hunting.

Whatever other people may tell you, don't buy this game because of promises and what it will / can be sometime in the future. Don't assume, that the things you are looking for are there, but they just don't show them.

I actually love this game, but I think this fact won't help you to make a good choice. Watch the videos or better yet, play it with someone and - I can't stress this enough - don't assume. MYTH has a way of "misleading" people because it looks so pretty and a lot of things feel so familiar to videogamers and rpg-players, that they assume, all the other stuff they love from those experiences (rpg, videogames) will also be there. IT IS NOT. It has no XP, no level-up, no campaign, no town-mode, no way to track hero progress, no loot-hoarding, no... Sorry, if I repeat this again and again, but this forum is proof enough, that people tend to expect something different from this game. If you fall into this category, don't buy it.
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Dan Renwick
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A cult game that won't appeal to a lot of people, but is loved by its fans.

My usual advice is to buy a second hand copy of the base game, hopefully with the 2.0 cards and rules, and see if you like it. You can then either sell it and forget the game ever existed, or sell it and go mad and buy an entire Kickstarter set.

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nimmzwei wrote:
If RPG-lite / story / choices / campaign is what you are looking for, don't buy MYTH. MYTH is a tactical minis game. Out of the box there are no choices, no ongoing story, no final goal, no end game, no campaign, no consistent, rpg-like way to upgrade your hero.

There are promises, hopes, community projects to add those things, but if you go out today and buy the base box it's not in it.

MCG has various play-throughs on their site and on youtube and you should watch those to get an impression of the actual gameplay. What you see there, is what you get. NOT more. There is no cool campaign, progression, rpg they're just not showing.


I wish I could recommend this more.

I wish there were more Myth fans like you.

Yours is a perfect summary of the game's strengths and weaknesses.

It's most definitely NOT WarhammerQuest 2.0, which is what it looks like at first glance.


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nimmzwei wrote:
If RPG-lite / story / choices / campaign is what you are looking for, don't buy MYTH. MYTH is a tactical minis game.


To be fair, so is D&D 3.0, 3.5 Pathfinder and D&D 4 - this does therefore fit one common definition of RPG-lite.

That may or may not be what the OP wants from RPG-lite, but it's what many do.
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Tobias Loeffler
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js379 wrote:
Kelanen wrote:
nimmzwei wrote:
If RPG-lite / story / choices / campaign is what you are looking for, don't buy MYTH. MYTH is a tactical minis game.


To be fair, so is D&D 3.0, 3.5 Pathfinder and D&D 4 - this does therefore fit one common definition of RPG-lite.

That may or may not be what the OP wants from RPG-lite, but it's what many do.


I have bwen playing d&d/pathfinder since 2nd edition, and 4th is the only version I ever felt necessitated a hex map and minis. Its also my least favorite version. I'm not sure how you can insist that third edition and pathfinder don't have stories choices or campaigns.


Thanks, Jason! That's exactly the kind of misleading comparison I was talking about.
 
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DrProfHazzmatt
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nimmzwei wrote:
If RPG-lite / story / choices / campaign is what you are looking for, don't buy MYTH. MYTH is a tactical minis game. Out of the box there are no choices, no ongoing story, no final goal, no end game, no campaign, no consistent, rpg-like way to upgrade your hero.

There are promises, hopes, community projects to add those things, but if you go out today and buy the base box it's not in it.

MCG has various play-throughs on their site and on youtube and you should watch those to get an impression of the actual gameplay. What you see there, is what you get. NOT more. There is no cool campaign, progression, rpg they're just not showing.

Then there are other things to consider:

- Expensive. Like other miniature-games, MYTH resolves around, well, minis and you will soon want more of them, because they bring varity to the game.
- Time consuming. A short scan through this forums will tell you, that there are A LOT of people, that still struggle to actually learn and play MYTH. This is a game that you will have to commit to or it will end up on your shelf.
- Exclusves: The game is a true child of the KS-area and bears all it's beauties and scars. There is a lot of stuff, you won't get your hands on unless you are willing to go ebay-hunting.

Whatever other people may tell you, don't buy this game because of promises and what it will / can be sometime in the future. Don't assume, that the things you are looking for are there, but they just don't show them.

I actually love this game, but I think this fact won't help you to make a good choice. Watch the videos or better yet, play it with someone and - I can't stress this enough - don't assume. MYTH has a way of "misleading" people because it looks so pretty and a lot of things feel so familiar to videogamers and rpg-players, that they assume, all the other stuff they love from those experiences (rpg, videogames) will also be there. IT IS NOT. It has no XP, no level-up, no campaign, no town-mode, no way to track hero progress, no loot-hoarding, no... Sorry, if I repeat this again and again, but this forum is proof enough, that people tend to expect something different from this game. If you fall into this category, don't buy it.


Alright, I'll just go delete my post since this one so perfectly encapsulated what I was trying to get at haha. But yes, OP, Tobias is right. Those of us who love the game, LOVE the game but there are a lot of caveats for a new player. A lot of things to consider before taking the plunge.
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Joel Carr
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I definitely concur that it a tactical mini's game with puzzly aspects from the card play. The few modules that exist (as patches) are decent story wise and provide some manner/level of 'progression' for an rpg lite feel. I enjoy it... and play it solo when I can dedicate some time, because each tile takes time... My main issue/problem is that there are classes which sit around a lot waiting for cards to appear...and that my kids prefer those sculpts... and then get bored or feel useless... or finally get that cool combination and have a bad roll and nothing happens... and then they sit for many more hero cycles...

Regardless, I enjoy it, play it solo, or sometimes with my son and daughter, had one session with a friends and his kids (they and he in particular liked it and the lack of becoming all powerful) That said I have not found the 'group' to play it with...

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B Wumpus wrote:
I definitely concur that it a tactical mini's game with puzzly aspects from the card play. The few modules that exist (as patches) are decent story wise and provide some manner/level of 'progression' for an rpg lite feel. I enjoy it... and play it solo when I can dedicate some time, because each tile takes time... My main issue/problem is that there are classes which sit around a lot waiting for cards to appear...and that my kids prefer those sculpts... and then get bored or feel useless... or finally get that cool combination and have a bad roll and nothing happens... and then they sit for many more hero cycles...


I actually don't mind the limited monster choices that came with the core set. For me, the game is not about the different monsters you're fighting but instead figuring out how the characters best work together to deal with whatever monster you put in front of them. I would agree that there can be some awkward downtime and that different combinations of characters seemingly work better for different groupings of players. I've said it numerous times before, in a two player game we've never had strong success with anything other than a Solider/Acolyte combination.

The few times we had a third player and could add a new character time, it was quite enjoyable to see the difference it makes. That is actually where I think the replay is - learning the different quirks/strategies of the various characters as they interrelate with one another. Unfortunately my experience has been that not all characters are created equal and some only seem to work well with groups of 3+ adventurers. I'm not an expert by any means, but I am guessing that's where the real variety comes in.
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David Griffin
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I agree with the above. For now it's a tactical minis game with great cooperative play, unique mechanics, and when played right, a sort of poetry in motion. The game it reminds me of a little is Mage Knight because it's a very thinky game.

Also as others have said above, learning it is HARD. The manual doesn't do a good job of teaching it. If you can, try to find someone to teach it to you. But it's worth taking the time to learn.

But forget all that "tell your own story" stuff. You know more about the Mage Knights than you do about the "Soldier" or "Acolyte" you play in this game. Buy it as a tactical board game and you'll be happier.
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Joel Carr
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Yeah I concur, I tried the storytelling with my kids for the "organic" experience,

My experience with setting up a tile:

Me: "Do you remember that time we took on the terror?"
Son: "Yeah, and I had my trusty fireplace poker."
Me: " I seem to recall, there were some 15 crawlers waiting to pounce.."
Daughter: "Well I recall there were those cute mice instead, and can we use the pink terror I painted"
Me: "fine, It was not 15 crawlers, it was 15 tailless all..
Son(interrupting): "hiding behind some scattered tombs" (places tokens on tile)
Daughter: "but the flower side is prettier" (flips them all to the flower side)

Me: (sigh)...
etc...

20 minutes into the game...
Me: "...and now I cast last rites and these tailless are engulfed in pillars of flame. What do you remember happened next daughter"
Daughter: "I remember that I would rather go play legos"
Me: "er... how about you son?"
Son: (looks up from chess app) "What? is it my turn?"
Me: "There are no "turns" remember."
Son: " Oh, yeah, um... well ... I think I should hero cycle..."
Me: "You mean we should hero cycle"
Son: "If you want to..." (goes back to chess)
Daughter: (puts our pet cat on top of the tile): "I remember a monster cat befriending all the mice and inviting them to tea, and squashing the ugly pink bug so we can go play legos"


Sorta true story....



edt: typos
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79strat wrote:
I can't make up my mind on whether I should buy this?


No one devil.

Quote:
Do you "NEED" expansions, kind of like you do for Shadows of Brimstone?


Yes, as they stripped elements out of the base game to sell as expansions. They specifically reference things in the base game that only show up in expansions, and there are things in expansions you "need" to run the base game.

Quote:
Are there meaningful choices?


No. The game is, from turn to turn, highly repetitive, and the best decision is always obvious.

The company also insults their customers, can't take criticism, and lashes out whenever something goes wrong. They also blame the critics for anything negative that happens. The one bright light - Nikki - recently left the company.

I'd avoid this like the plague, unless you're buying a lot for cheap to use the miniatures elsewhere. They're beautiful.
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The whole 'stories' thing is bizarre and baffling. I could probably tell a vague 'story' about a chess match, but it wouldn't make it an RPG.

As for 3.5/Pathfinder, Jason is quite correct. It's a combat-heavy system, yes, but you can absolutely have role-playing and campaigns - and levelling, looting, & persistent characters are required. All things Myth lacks in any meaningful way.

There are a bunch of good things about the game - the components and minis are gorgeous, the AI is excellent and the tactical options and card/hand play is unique and quite deep.

But as people here have said, it requires a large buy-in in terms of time and money, and takes a good deal of effort to understand the game compared to most.

And while Journeyman might address the RPG-lite issues it presently lacks, I wouldn't personally expect it to turn into something like Shadows of Brimstone either. MCG designed it as a tactical minis game and that's where it will likely remain. It's a bit like Diablo with severely curtailed looting and levelling.
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Idaho11 wrote:

The company also insults their customers, can't take criticism, and lashes out whenever something goes wrong. They also blame the critics for anything negative that happens. The one bright light - Nikki - recently left the company.


Oh yeah, this too.

Some people genuinely don't mind dealing with a company that openly despises and cheats their customers - once they have the game in hand, they don't have to worry about MCG's tantrums, after all.

Others don't like to be lied to and short-changed. MCG have a decent product, but it's telling that they have alienated people like Jason and JimBob who were once their supporters.

Let's just say that Nikki, who was helpful and attentive to her customers, will be sorely missed.
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Idaho11 wrote:
79strat wrote:
I can't make up my mind on whether I should buy this?


No one devil.

Quote:
Do you "NEED" expansions, kind of like you do for Shadows of Brimstone?


Yes, as they stripped elements out of the base game to sell as expansions. They specifically reference things in the base game that only show up in expansions, and there are things in expansions you "need" to run the base game.

Quote:
Are there meaningful choices?


No. The game is, from turn to turn, highly repetitive, and the best decision is always obvious.

The company also insults their customers, can't take criticism, and lashes out whenever something goes wrong. They also blame the critics for anything negative that happens. The one bright light - Nikki - recently left the company.

I'd avoid this like the plague, unless you're buying a lot for cheap to use the miniatures elsewhere. They're beautiful.


No the game isn't really repetitive, and there are a LOT of choices, but the play is designed around using group tactics to meet the tactical situation created on the tile when you populate it. Some can be pretty vicious but it's almost *a little* like a chess problem.

You have a trap and a lair. Which is the greatest threat? What do the characters have to take out first? Who can do it and who can support it. You have to assemble a plan and then try to execute it. Sometimes the plan comes off and sometimes you have to improvise.

The cards create variability (as they do in Mage Knight) and the asymmetric capabilities possessed by each of the characters make those plans different every time. The teamwork you are absolutely forced to use to solve those problems feels like a great RPG game where you're taking down the big bad and everyone is working together like a team is supposed to.

Beautiful, but not a dungeon crawl. Not a story-telling game. Not a RPG. Not a progression game (despite the limited progression mechanics they are trying to create for those of us who like the idea of progression.
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So, from what I'm gathering, it's like, a straight up tactical warfare game? Nothing else?
 
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79strat wrote:
So, from what I'm gathering, it's like, a straight up tactical warfare game? Nothing else?


For now yes. You do select a character (as you do in many other board games like say Eldrich Horror) and that character has different capabilities. Some adventures call for "more powerful" characters. You can use the somewhat disjointed progression system to do that or you can just equip your characters with some advanced card swaps, and maybe some titles to give you the requisite abilities.

The actual power levels are a little vague at present so you may have to guess, and that is really part of the uniqueness of Myth. You have to gain the experience to know how to populate the tiles and how to make informed decisions on what to populate them with. You can therefore make the tile harder or easier as pleases you. It's all up to you in a way that no game I know of does. But it doesn't tell you HOW to make those decisions or what the implications are. For instance 2 lairs is HARD, so don't do it unless you have some experience, but you don't know that till you play and get some experience. Catch 22.

They say they're writing adventures but so far there are just a couple that are downloadable, and all they really do is to add color to the tiles (and provide some pretty hard challenges, it's here you'll want to add some advancements to your characters). In future there may be more of a RPG aspect, but not now.

But the idea of populating the tile, kibitzing with your friend to come up with a plan, and trying to execute it is at the level of sophistication that I tend to see only in RPGs. You NEED your friends here to help formulate the plan and execute it.
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79strat wrote:
So, from what I'm gathering, it's like, a straight up tactical warfare game? Nothing else?


Yeah pretty much.
Have you played Shadows over Brimstone? It's basically 100% opposite of that.
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Shadows of Brimstone has a story and a background, as well as an integrated progression system. But you're still not going to get story as you would in a real role playing game on a tabletop with a GM. But yes it's more like a RPG in a board game. I like it, but I don't like it more than Myth.

Even though they resemble each other they are totally different kinds of games.
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Shadow is all story and random rolls and card draws to decide everything, with the gameplay being kitting out your hero and no real choices in combat.

Myth is next to no story (currently), players choosing everything (what they will fight, tile etc), with lots of choices and strategies during the combat.
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
Shadow is all story and random rolls and card draws to decide everything, with the gameplay being kitting out your hero and no real choices in combat.

Myth is next to no story (currently), players choosing everything (what they will fight, tile etc), with lots of choices and strategies during the combat.


Oh how I do I love both.
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Mr Skeletor wrote:
Shadow is all story and random rolls and card draws to decide everything, with the gameplay being kitting out your hero and no real choices in combat.

Myth is next to no story (currently), players choosing everything (what they will fight, tile etc), with lots of choices and strategies during the combat.


Nailed it.

Once both the KS finally deliver, I'm putting them all in a comfy hotel room with a bottle of wine and some Barry White, to make me the PERFECT tactical dungeon crawler epic levelling campaign system ever. EVER.
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As worrying is that I agree with Skeletor...

You forgot this:

The Myth minis are beautiful.
The SoB minis are garbage.

SoB plays fine solo.
The complexity of the card play makes solo play in Myth a bit of a chore.

But yes, what SOB does well, Myth does badly, and vice-versa.
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Dan Renwick
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It's no more complex than Mage Knight is to play solo, so that's really a matter of taste. Lots of people don't like Mage Knight because it's too slow and thinky. As Rahdo said, he and his wife passed on Mage Knight because you could spend 15 minutes thinking about all your various options before you decide to move one space.

Anyone who thinks that the options in Myth are 'obvious' probably hasn't played it, and if you want to argue that point I'll happily upload a very dull playthrough of me slowly going through all the potential options I have.

The game can be glacially slow. Some people like that. Some people don't.
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