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Subject: Possible to play solo as an Agent with AI-controlled Hunters? rss

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Fitzgerald Limisella
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Hi all,

Been looking to get this game but I tend to play solo games for various reasons. I understand that this is mainly a competitive game, but I wonder if it is possible to generate "simple" AI rules for the Hunters while you play as an Agent?

Looking at some gameplay videos, I think this shouldn't be terribly hard to do, especially for folks out there who are used to creating variants etc?

My initial (rough) ideas are something like this:
If Hunter is in vehicle, s/he has 2 options:
1. Remain in vehicle and activate Motion Sensor
2. Move vehicle
3. Hop out of vehicle

If Hunter is not in vehicle, options are:
1. Activate ability
2. Move towards Agent's most likely position
3. Guard an ideal square to potentially spot Agent
4. Attack Agent if within range

So it won't be about deduction any more. It will be about actively evading the Hunters.

What are your thoughts?
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Dillon Flaherty
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Severna Park
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Hmmm...

I'm thinking there is probably room for an AI for Specter Ops - but think that it could only truly be enjoyable if represented by a complex AI, instead of a simple one. Preferably app-driven.

The difficulty in coming up with AI rules for the Hunters is that they have to be able to respond intelligently to a multitude of game states simultaneously with many variable board positions - both of which would require differences in their behavior.

On top of all that, you also have variable powers for each hunter, and they would then also have to worry about variable powers for each agent

...and then a host of combinations of equipment card possibilities.

There are a great many solo boardgames, and an even greater number of boardgames with decent-to-awesome solo variant rules. If that is what you're looking for, I would personally recommend staying away from Specter Ops.

With 2+, however, Specter Ops is friggin' awesome.
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Peter Hazlewood
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Coolspidey wrote:
Hi all,

Been looking to get this game but I tend to play solo games for various reasons. I understand that this is mainly a competitive game, but I wonder if it is possible to generate "simple" AI rules for the Hunters while you play as an Agent?

Looking at some gameplay videos, I think this shouldn't be terribly hard to do, especially for folks out there who are used to creating variants etc?

My initial (rough) ideas are something like this:
If Hunter is in vehicle, s/he has 2 options:
1. Remain in vehicle and activate Motion Sensor
2. Move vehicle
3. Hop out of vehicle

If Hunter is not in vehicle, options are:
1. Activate ability
2. Move towards Agent's most likely position
3. Guard an ideal square to potentially spot Agent
4. Attack Agent if within range

So it won't be about deduction any more. It will be about actively evading the Hunters.

What are your thoughts?


I don't blame you for trying to create a solo variant; this game is my absolute favourite. However, I just don't see how this would translate at all well. There are so many nuances to playing this game that I think it would just be way too easy for the human Agent player.

I mean, so they have 3 options when inside the vehicle. One is move the vehicle- but how far, and where will they move? The agent uses the motion sensor- but you're not giving a direction to anybody so what point does it have? Will it determine which direction the hunters then move? If so, that is going to be really easy for the Agent to avoid the hunter; you know exactly where they're going.

I'm not sure if this will work, honestly.

*Edit: an app is in the works and should be released soon. AI is not going to be included immediately but maybe it could be added in future? In which case, this is very viable solo but I don't think a set of rules could mimic the choices and deduction of a human/computer AI.
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Tomer Mlynarsky
Israel
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Honestly, wouldn't it be better to do the other way around?

Have an app or something do an AI for the agent while the player controls the hunters?
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Ima Dork
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Set your board up, buy tabletop simulator on steam and d/l the Specter Ops package.
 
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Fitzgerald Limisella
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Thanks for all your replies. Sounds like it's not something that can be pulled off easily, at least not at this stage.

So what's this about the tabletop simulator? I know what it is but how does it solve the problem? Does it offer AI or some sort?

I found out about the app the other day was excited but then I realised that it's just going to replace the paper. Oh wells, maybe next time.
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Erwin Anciano
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AI won't work for a game like this. If you know the rules of the Hunter AI, you will never get caught. Much of the game depends on gut instinct and reading the opponent something the AI cannot do.
 
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John Park
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Mochana wrote:
AI won't work for a game like this. If you know the rules of the Hunter AI, you will never get caught. Much of the game depends on gut instinct and reading the opponent something the AI cannot do.


That's kind of what they said about Chess, Go and Jeopardy.
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Peter Hazlewood
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Mochana wrote:
AI won't work for a game like this. If you know the rules of the Hunter AI, you will never get caught. Much of the game depends on gut instinct and reading the opponent something the AI cannot do.


I'm afraid I don't agree. AI can be programmed to act in unexpected ways. Just because a human might play with gut instinct doesn't mean you have to play that way.
 
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Shoosh shoo
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I wouldn't be opposed to an app that lets you play against AI, but I feel that the game would lose a lot of the theme and tension and atmosphere. I've played this as a 2, 3, and 4 player game now (each one time) and I feel that 3 players is a sweet spot. I didn't like 4 and I imagine 5 would be boring as well.

I think this is a great 2-3 player game. As the agent I love the conversation and collusion from the hunters. As a hunter I love the idea of working together to hunt down the agent. I love the frustration when you lose the agent's trail, and the rush when you find him.

I don't think an AI controlled player/team would capture that same feeling, but I could be wrong.
 
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Tomer Mlynarsky
Israel
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shooshoo wrote:

I don't think an AI controlled player/team would capture that same feeling, but I could be wrong.


Different feeling doesn't make something bad.
Just different.



For example, you could say that you enjoy hearing the hunters talk, which makes you think how to bypass their plan and make it more puzzle-ish style game for you.


But if an AI controlled the game, you wouldn't have that talk making it more of a horror game where the killer is after you and you have no idea where they are going to show up next.

It would be a different experience for sure, but not positively a bad one.



Take a game like Xcom. As a group game, the clock is ticking a lot faster forcing you to look only at your stuff and put pressure on the group to try and find a way to communicate efficiently.

In a solo game, you don't have that, and you have a bit more time. But you also need to monitor so many things you can get easily lost in the mix.

Both are fun experiences, just different ones.
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Erwin Anciano
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sneakypete21 wrote:
Mochana wrote:
AI won't work for a game like this. If you know the rules of the Hunter AI, you will never get caught. Much of the game depends on gut instinct and reading the opponent something the AI cannot do.


I'm afraid I don't agree. AI can be programmed to act in unexpected ways. Just because a human might play with gut instinct doesn't mean you have to play that way.


Sure, but I'm saying an AI for this game is not going to offer any kind of challenge unless it cheats.

It's like Chess and Go. Chess is easier to create an AI for because there are less possibilities. Thus a good Chess AI can beat a world class player. But the same can't be said for Go, where no AI can offer a challenge to a good player, not even a world champion class Go player.

Specter Ops is far worse as the AI wouldn't even have a lot of crucial information about the board available as the Agent is hidden.

I would say that a good player would easily run circles around a Specter Ops Hunter AI.
 
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David desJardins
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Mochana wrote:
It's like Chess and Go. Chess is easier to create an AI for because there are less possibilities. Thus a good Chess AI can beat a world class player. But the same can't be said for Go, where no AI can offer a challenge to a good player, not even a world champion class Go player.


You are extraordinarily wrong. If you're going to make proclamations about such things, you should pay more attention to the news.

How the Computer Beat the Go Master
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Peter Hazlewood
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Mochana wrote:
It's like Chess and Go. Chess is easier to create an AI for because there are less possibilities. Thus a good Chess AI can beat a world class player. But the same can't be said for Go, where no AI can offer a challenge to a good player, not even a world champion class Go player.


You are extraordinarily wrong. If you're going to make proclamations about such things, you should pay more attention to the news.

How the Computer Beat the Go Master


Thank you! Case closed.
 
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