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Ouch:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-09-30/near-colla...
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Ferretman wrote:


Pish posh. This is all hearsay that will be instantly disproved by some leftists anecdote about how amazing Obamacare is.
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Jeff Brown
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TheDashi wrote:
Ferretman wrote:


Pish posh. This is all hearsay that will be instantly disproved by some leftists anecdote about how amazing Obamacare is.


I have big problems with obamacare and I think it needs to be fixed. I want to go forward however and not backward. Republicans want to go backward. This halfway space that we are in right now is just not feasible.

I'm not the only one who thinks there are problems: Bill Clinton mentioned it this week also

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics/bill-clinton-obamacar...

however I put more of the blame on republicans for where we are at and not democrats because of this:
Quote:
Since it's become law, the Obama administration and the President himself have publicly signaled they're open to changing the ACA, but have cited Republicans in Congress as unwilling partners who want to repeal the legislation.
"What I would also say is that since the very first day the President signed this bill into law, he acknowledged an openness to working with Democrats or Republicans in Congress to further strengthen it," White House press secretary Josh Earnest said at a briefing Monday. "And we have seen a sustained commitment on the part of Republicans to trying to tear down that law."
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jeff brown wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Ferretman wrote:


Pish posh. This is all hearsay that will be instantly disproved by some leftists anecdote about how amazing Obamacare is.


I have big problems with obamacare and I think it needs to be fixed. I want to go forward however and not backward. Republicans want to go backward. This halfway space that we are in right now is just not feasible.

I'm not the only one who thinks there are problems: Bill Clinton mentioned it this week also

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics/bill-clinton-obamacar...

however I put more of the blame on republicans for where we are at and not democrats because of this:
Quote:
Since it's become law, the Obama administration and the President himself have publicly signaled they're open to changing the ACA, but have cited Republicans in Congress as unwilling partners who want to repeal the legislation.
"What I would also say is that since the very first day the President signed this bill into law, he acknowledged an openness to working with Democrats or Republicans in Congress to further strengthen it," White House press secretary Josh Earnest said at a briefing Monday. "And we have seen a sustained commitment on the part of Republicans to trying to tear down that law."
Time for single payer, and take profit out of healthcare.
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slatersteven wrote:
jeff brown wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Ferretman wrote:


Pish posh. This is all hearsay that will be instantly disproved by some leftists anecdote about how amazing Obamacare is.


I have big problems with obamacare and I think it needs to be fixed. I want to go forward however and not backward. Republicans want to go backward. This halfway space that we are in right now is just not feasible.

I'm not the only one who thinks there are problems: Bill Clinton mentioned it this week also

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics/bill-clinton-obamacar...

however I put more of the blame on republicans for where we are at and not democrats because of this:
Quote:
Since it's become law, the Obama administration and the President himself have publicly signaled they're open to changing the ACA, but have cited Republicans in Congress as unwilling partners who want to repeal the legislation.
"What I would also say is that since the very first day the President signed this bill into law, he acknowledged an openness to working with Democrats or Republicans in Congress to further strengthen it," White House press secretary Josh Earnest said at a briefing Monday. "And we have seen a sustained commitment on the part of Republicans to trying to tear down that law."
Time for single payer, and take profit out of healthcare.


Yep, people that go to school for 8 years should not be allowed to make money providing a service which takes nearly a decade in training.
Why didnt that idiot overnight you the stupid game.
 
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slatersteven wrote:
jeff brown wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Ferretman wrote:


Pish posh. This is all hearsay that will be instantly disproved by some leftists anecdote about how amazing Obamacare is.


I have big problems with obamacare and I think it needs to be fixed. I want to go forward however and not backward. Republicans want to go backward. This halfway space that we are in right now is just not feasible.

I'm not the only one who thinks there are problems: Bill Clinton mentioned it this week also

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics/bill-clinton-obamacar...

however I put more of the blame on republicans for where we are at and not democrats because of this:
Quote:
Since it's become law, the Obama administration and the President himself have publicly signaled they're open to changing the ACA, but have cited Republicans in Congress as unwilling partners who want to repeal the legislation.
"What I would also say is that since the very first day the President signed this bill into law, he acknowledged an openness to working with Democrats or Republicans in Congress to further strengthen it," White House press secretary Josh Earnest said at a briefing Monday. "And we have seen a sustained commitment on the part of Republicans to trying to tear down that law."
Time for single payer, and take profit out of healthcare.


"The government will fuck it up"

Well, the free market sure isn't doing much for our health, but I'm sure those 36 countries that the WHO ranks above us are all flukes.

Maybe the lives of the poor aren't a commodity? Oh well.
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TheDashi wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
jeff brown wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Ferretman wrote:


Pish posh. This is all hearsay that will be instantly disproved by some leftists anecdote about how amazing Obamacare is.


I have big problems with obamacare and I think it needs to be fixed. I want to go forward however and not backward. Republicans want to go backward. This halfway space that we are in right now is just not feasible.

I'm not the only one who thinks there are problems: Bill Clinton mentioned it this week also

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics/bill-clinton-obamacar...

however I put more of the blame on republicans for where we are at and not democrats because of this:
Quote:
Since it's become law, the Obama administration and the President himself have publicly signaled they're open to changing the ACA, but have cited Republicans in Congress as unwilling partners who want to repeal the legislation.
"What I would also say is that since the very first day the President signed this bill into law, he acknowledged an openness to working with Democrats or Republicans in Congress to further strengthen it," White House press secretary Josh Earnest said at a briefing Monday. "And we have seen a sustained commitment on the part of Republicans to trying to tear down that law."
Time for single payer, and take profit out of healthcare.


Yep, people that go to school for 8 years should not be allowed to make money providing a service which takes nearly a decade in training.
Why didnt that idiot overnight you the stupid game.
non profit does not mean unpaid.

Lets take your beloved market approach. Tell you what buy me a £30 game (or games to that value) and I will never reply to you ever again.
 
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Terwox wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
jeff brown wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Ferretman wrote:


Pish posh. This is all hearsay that will be instantly disproved by some leftists anecdote about how amazing Obamacare is.


I have big problems with obamacare and I think it needs to be fixed. I want to go forward however and not backward. Republicans want to go backward. This halfway space that we are in right now is just not feasible.

I'm not the only one who thinks there are problems: Bill Clinton mentioned it this week also

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/04/politics/bill-clinton-obamacar...

however I put more of the blame on republicans for where we are at and not democrats because of this:
Quote:
Since it's become law, the Obama administration and the President himself have publicly signaled they're open to changing the ACA, but have cited Republicans in Congress as unwilling partners who want to repeal the legislation.
"What I would also say is that since the very first day the President signed this bill into law, he acknowledged an openness to working with Democrats or Republicans in Congress to further strengthen it," White House press secretary Josh Earnest said at a briefing Monday. "And we have seen a sustained commitment on the part of Republicans to trying to tear down that law."
Time for single payer, and take profit out of healthcare.


"The government will fuck it up"

Well, the free market sure isn't doing much for our health, but I'm sure those 36 countries that the WHO ranks above us are all flukes.

Maybe the lives of the poor aren't a commodity? Oh well.
Well they do not make money.
 
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From the article cited by the OP:

Quote:
Minnesota will let the health insurers in its Obamacare market raise rates by at least 50 percent next year, after the individual market there came to the brink of collapse, the state’s commerce commissioner said Friday.

The increases range from 50 percent to 67 percent, Commissioner Mike Rothman’s office said in a statement. Rothman, who regulates the state’s insurers, is an appointee under Governor Mark Dayton, a Democrat. The rate hike follows increases for this year of 14 percent to 49 percent.


Technically -- and to be accurate -- Minnesota's insurance commission is allowing private insurance companies (aka the Pillaging Pirates) to raise rates because they were not making enough money.

All this does is strengthen my conviction that single-PAYER is the way to go. It would keep the machinations of MBAs out of health care while providing excellent compensation to doctors, nurses, etc.

But to a point raised above that single-payer would pay pennies to people who went to school for eight years, perhaps a remedy would be to forgive existing student loans for doctors, nurses, et. al, and offer free medical education to qualified applicants. If they're going to get loans anyway, the government might as well pay it up front.
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J.D. Hall
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TheDashi wrote:
Ferretman wrote:


Pish posh. This is all hearsay that will be instantly disproved by some leftists anecdote about how amazing Obamacare is.

Waiting on those leftist anecdotes......




Still waiting.....




Still waiting.....





Fell asleep and gave up.
 
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remorseless1 wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Ferretman wrote:


Pish posh. This is all hearsay that will be instantly disproved by some leftists anecdote about how amazing Obamacare is.

Waiting on those leftist anecdotes......




Still waiting.....




Still waiting.....





Fell asleep and gave up.


You must be new here. In the last week there was anecdotal posts that were put up as praise for how great obamacare is.
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J.D. Hall
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That saddens me Dash -- I've been here for months. And yes, I read yesterday Mac's anecdote about his conservative friend suddenly becoming an advocate for the ACA, plus numerous other heart warming tales about how great the ACA is.

I think it stinks, barely a half-measure in addressing a major problem in this country. It might have worked better if the GOP hadn't decided to make sure Obama was a one-term president and thus instead of fixing legislation passed by Congress, the GOP voted to repeal. The Democrats didn't do anything about it, either. They could have at least introduced bills, but they backed way from the shitstorm they created.

The disagreement, of course, is whether to trust the private sector (which got us into this mess) or the government (who perpetuates this mess). Pretty fucking frustrating.
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remorseless1 wrote:
That saddens me Dash -- I've been here for months. And yes, I read yesterday Mac's anecdote about his conservative friend suddenly becoming an advocate for the ACA, plus numerous other heart warming tales about how great the ACA is.

I think it stinks, barely a half-measure in addressing a major problem in this country. It might have worked better if the GOP hadn't decided to make sure Obama was a one-term president and thus instead of fixing legislation passed by Congress, the GOP voted to repeal. The Democrats didn't do anything about it, either. They could have at least introduced bills, but they backed way from the shitstorm they created.

The disagreement, of course, is whether to trust the private sector (which got us into this mess) or the government (who perpetuates this mess). Pretty fucking frustrating.


I didn't say he became an advocate. I said he became a customer because his cobra rates were 350% of unsubsidized blue cross blue shield silver plans.

With private market health care you may lose coverage any time. One of the drivers for the ACA was that insurance companies were dumping customers as soon as they got sick. In some cases the customers had been paying premiums for years ( perhaps decades ).

Losing your job could be a death sentence because it meant you lost your health insurance and with preexisting conditions you couldn't get health insurance again. It was screwing over half the citizens. And so they voted against the private health care system and for a president who said he would put in something better.

There is a problem with state based markets. States with smaller populations have higher fixed medical costs. You get economies of scale in california that you don't get in Wyoming.

Also, states with higher numbers of elderly (ala Florida), the rates have to be higher. We need a national risk pool instead of state based risk pools.
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Age Demographics
Area 0-18 19-64 65+ Median Age
U.S. 24% 63% 13% 37 years
Minn 28%* 63% 09% 39.6 years

Odd. More young people, fewer old people but higher average age.


http://www.mprnews.org/story/2013/10/28/health/rochester-hea...
Okay this is strange, the fact that the mayo clinic is in rochester, MN there raises insurance costs in rochester, MN.

Can't find any obvious reason why medical costs would be higher in Minnesota.

Source: U.S. census data & Wiki page on minnesota demographics.

http://www.twincities.com/2016/09/01/insurers-ask-to-raise-m...
Quote:
After Blue Cross Blue Shield withdrew from the individual market over the summer, some of Minnesota’s other insurers considered following suit. In a statement, UCare’s senior vice president for public affairs Ghita Worcester said the insurer thought about exiting but decided instead to raise rates and pursue legislative “fixes” over the next year.

“The unfortunate reality is that our members’ medical and pharmacy needs were costlier, and medical service use was greater than when rates were set in previous years,” Worcester said.

Minnesota’s not alone in seeing high proposed rate increases. Most states around the country have experienced double-digit growth in proposed premiums this year.
RESPONSES: CONCERN, CRITICISM

Gov. Mark Dayton said he was “alarmed by the drastic increases in health insurance rates for Minnesotans in the individual market.” In a statement, he called them “reason for very serious concerns” and said he would reconvene a task force to recommend improvements to Minnesota’s health insurance market. That task force recommended a host of changes earlier this year, but the recommendations were rejected by Republicans and went nowhere in the Legislature.
 
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I remember when private insurance rates here in Iowa went up a few percent and people were outraged and calling for legal action. I wonder how the state will raise it 60 percent and still keep the useful idiots in line without some form of protest.
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
I remember when private insurance rates here in Iowa went up a few percent and people were outraged and calling for legal action. I wonder how the state insurance companies will raise it 60 percent and still keep the useful idiots in line without some form of protest.

Unless everyone in Iowa is on Medicare, Medicaid, or Tricare, they are getting insurance through private insurance companies -- you know, the ones that have fucked us over for three decades.
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maxo-texas wrote:
Age Demographics
Area 0-18 19-64 65+ Median Age
U.S. 24% 63% 13% 37 years
Minn 28%* 63% 09% 39.6 years


Odd. More young people, fewer old people but higher average age.

Median not average. Big difference. It just means the 19-64 crowd is skewed. Might be strictly older; might be a population lump. There's just no way to know from this data. Hypothetically, it might be something like migration out of state for jobs among younger adults, 19-30 or some such.

(Table reformatted.)

maxo-texas wrote:
http://www.mprnews.org/story/2013/10/28/health/rochester-hea...
Okay this is strange, the fact that the mayo clinic is in rochester, MN there raises insurance costs in rochester, MN.

How is it strange that a top-tier institution like the Mayo Clinic would charge top-tier prices? (Needed for top-tier doctors and equipment.)

maxo-texas wrote:
Can't find any obvious reason why medical costs would be higher in Minnesota.

One reason is that they haven't expanded Medicaid, so those people are in the private insurance pools not in Medicaid. You've described some Texas health programs that seem to mitigate Texas's lack of Medicaid expansion; I don't know if Wisconsin has similar programs.

I've noticed that choices in private insurance are much poorer in less populous states. Insurance in California is a fraction of what is paid in nearby states I've looked at. The whole Trader Joe's dropping private insurance because ACA was cheaper was driven by that (and may not apply to TJ out of CA.)

Also:
Covered California’s Lee told the House Ways and Means Committee on July 12 that 2017 would be “a transitional year” for Obamacare, with rates seeing “significant adjustments” across the nation.

He said one reason for the increase was the end of a program designed to keep rates down during the insurance exchange’s first three years. The program had assessed a fee on all health insurers and then redistributed those funds among carriers whose members had the highest medical expenses, Lee said.

Lee added that some insurers had also not charged enough in the first two years because they didn’t have full data on the medical costs or health status of those signing up. Now they’re adjusting to account for those higher costs.

-- http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-covered-california-rat...
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slatersteven wrote:
Time for single payer, and take profit out of healthcare.


What a terrible, dehumanizing idea.

Pass. You'all go ahead if you want.


Ferret
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Ferretman wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Time for single payer, and take profit out of healthcare.


What a terrible, dehumanizing idea.

Pass. You'all go ahead if you want.


Ferret


Dehumanizing?
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wifwendell wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Time for single payer, and take profit out of healthcare.


What a terrible, dehumanizing idea.

Pass. You'all go ahead if you want.

Ferret


Dehumanizing?


True humanity is realized in treating health as a commodity, because WHO FUCKING KNOWS
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Terwox wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Time for single payer, and take profit out of healthcare.


What a terrible, dehumanizing idea.

Pass. You'all go ahead if you want.

Ferret


Dehumanizing?


True humanity is realized in treating health as a commodity, because WHO FUCKING KNOWS

True humanity = $10,000 for an epi-pen.
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einsteinidahosu wrote:
Terwox wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Time for single payer, and take profit out of healthcare.


What a terrible, dehumanizing idea.

Pass. You'all go ahead if you want.

Ferret


Dehumanizing?


True humanity is realized in treating health as a commodity, because WHO FUCKING KNOWS

True humanity = $10,000 for an epi-pen.


yea, last I heard the company is now in legal trouble.

Something about saying the epipen was generic.
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einsteinidahosu wrote:
Terwox wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
Time for single payer, and take profit out of healthcare.


What a terrible, dehumanizing idea.

Pass. You'all go ahead if you want.

Ferret


Dehumanizing?


True humanity is realized in treating health as a commodity, because WHO FUCKING KNOWS

True humanity = $10,000 for an epi-pen.


That is the result of a state granted monopoly. If the government got out the way they'd probably cost $5 (check YouTube tutorials). It's also the result of the FDA preventing companies from selling a similar product without spending hundreds of millions on an approval process. All designed to protect the profits of big businesses and screw the consumer.

But yeah let's pile more government onto the problems government caused.
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The ACA is inherently a half-hearted attempt to appease those wanting a single payer system without the actual single payer system. Nothing but a single payer system can work and do what it is supposed to do. Yes, this means the predatory days of the medical insurance industry are over.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
I think it stinks, barely a half-measure in addressing a major problem in this country. It might have worked better if the GOP hadn't decided to make sure Obama was a one-term president and thus instead of fixing legislation passed by Congress, the GOP voted to repeal. The Democrats didn't do anything about it, either. They could have at least introduced bills, but they backed way from the shitstorm they created.


Why is it the GOP's job to fix the Democrats' disaster? So they can be the fall guys?

Geez.

The Democrats own Obamacare start to finish. Let it be on their heads and their heads alone.

If the Democratic Party was a drowning man, I'd throw him a rock.


Its called working for the good of the country instead of merely trying score political "Points". Doing what is best for the people seems to be somewhat of a foreign concept to you
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