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Arkham Horror» Forums » General

Subject: The Worst Rumor? rss

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Wolfie
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I think we may have stumbled across the worst rumor in the game this week in our (futile) fight against Atlach-Nacha.

Mistrust (Kingsport Horror) basically gives you 3 turns to solve it and requires investigators pretty much discard most of their items. We decided off the bat not to solve it and got our sliders as much as we could to where we wanted them, but because it hit early in the game, there was basically very little chance of getting enough items to solve it. We were locked in at 0 focus for most of the game.

Any other votes for nastiest rumor? goo
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foksieloy
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Good work undone is the one I hate the most.

And I guess cover up is one of the worst to solve.
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Teeka
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We play a lot of 2-player base game. It's hard but doable... unless we get The Terrible Experiment.

With more players, that card is usually a nice source for some trophies. But with 2, especially if drawn early*, it's pretty much hanging on waiting for the inevitable.

When we get an easier one like Disturbing The Dead, we deliberately leave it for as long as we can, hoping that TTE will be drawn and discarded in the meantime.

*We've already had multiple games where it was the second (first full-turn) Mythos card to come out. goo
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Bern Harkins
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I cam here to add The Terrible Experiment, when drawn early... so yes, Teeka, and it's not much better with three investigators.
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Eric Alexopoulos
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Mistrust is a nasty one. However, it can be survivable. The Terrible Experiment, Good Work Undone & The Great Ritual are all tough ones too. IMHO all rumors are terrible. They drain the investigators' time and resources, which is what they're supposed to do.
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Tibs
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This will be fun. I'm going to tackle these in different contexts.

From the base game:


Good Work Undone is nastier when later in the game. It costs clues, but an unknown amount, and effectively destroys all your progress to win if ignored. Its weakness is that if it comes out early enough, you can let it fail at no consequence.

The Terrible Experiment is pretty hard and has a nearly game-ending fail condition. Its weakness is that it can be a trophy farm, and can be pruned in order to block other rumors.

Small-box rumors:

Dark Pharaoh's rumors are both interesting, but not particularly difficult to solve or punishing when failed.

King in Yellow's rumors can't be passed: the fun is if you're in the wrong situation when they inevitably fail. Still, they're not that hard at all.

Black Goat's rumors are interesting too: they do some very non-standard things from a mechanical perspective.

Lurker's rumors are not interesting. Wow, I've found something that Black Goat did better than Lurker!

Big-box rumors:

It seems that the aim of big-box expansion rumors was to make them impossibly hard.

Dunwich's Mad Bomber, Nightmare Pool, and Riots cards are all very similar in mechanics, and similarly nearly impossible to pass without both good luck and burdening the investigators with Injury/Madness/Loans.

Similarly with Kingsport's Mistrust and Cover-up, but taken to a higher degree. It's much harder to quickly get trophies and items than it is to get sanity/stamina/money. And the penalties are worse. World Torn Asunder at least takes a while to pop and isn't quite so bad to fail, provided you have people in Kingsport ready to close the rifts.

Innsmouth's rumors definitely dialed off a bit. They're much easier to pass, and have ongoing effects. These are the best kinds of rumors, IMO: the ones that are an additional effect that reminds you they're there, not to be ignored.

Three of Miskatonic Horror's four rumors are interesting in their execution: expansion components are involved and the penalty is loss of money or items. Fair enough.

But the fourth one is interesting in its own right—it is the most-failed rumor on the stats page: To Conquer Death. To pass it, players must quickly, consistently, and repeatedly pass horror checks with 2 or more successes. Your reward is increased sanity maximum and the loss of a Madness. But if you fail? All monsters have endless, and Undead monsters don't count against the limit. Seems like too much effort to pass it.

Promotional: Dance of the Damned

Dance of the Damned is a great rumor. It's designed to be very tough to pass, but also to be in play for a long time—and it has an active and oppressive bearing on investigator clue expenditure. The only criticisms I have with it are:

1. If you're up against an AO that significantly affects your ability to gain blessings (Tsathoggua) or tomes (Y'Golonac), you're going to fail this rumor. Best to drive it to fail and eat the loss early, or rush and hope it never fails. Actually this is strategically interesting, too.
2. You're supposed to begin the game with it. But if you begin every game with it, then you're probably never going to see any other rumor ever again... or at least, you'll see them too late to have an effect. My solution to this is to only put DotD into play if the first-drawn Mythos card was a rumor (and therefore had to be discarded and re-drawn).

Conclusions:

So in the end, if I had to pick a "worst" rumor, it would be among Dunwich's and Kingsport's "accumulating tokens per-player-per-round." I'm having trouble deciding if Cover-up or Mistrust is worst overall. I guess it would depend on how many clues you would stand to lose for failing Cover-up.


Stargazer1x wrote:
IMHO all rumors are terrible. They drain the investigators' time and resources, which is what they're supposed to do.


I'd disagree with you on that for at least one case: Return to the Old Ways [Dark Pharaoh] has a very VERY easy pass condition, and a great reward. No wonder it's down at the bottom of the "failed percent" stats list.
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Wolfie
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The closest I have seen to Mistrust in terms of nastiness is Riots, but I actually think Mistrust is worse since items are much harder to come by than Stamina. Both are evil because of the quick turnaround needed (3 turns). I suppose I never minded The Terrible Experiment or Good Work Undone because they at least have a fairly long period before they expire, and you can manage them. But it's very difficult to manage the discarding of items in the hopes you can regain them in the early part of the game.

Sure, if Mistrust hits late in the game, it's less of an issue because investigators have more items by then, and even if they decide to let it fail, 0 Focus is much less harmful in the endgame if you are prepped for the final battle.

I guess the combination of the extremely short reaction time and the game long penalty of 0 Focus so early is what really got our goat. I can see how Cover-up might edge out Mistrust, but I think Cover-up is much more situation-dependent (how many clues are on the board?) than Mistrust. Late in the game, it wouldn't hit as hard either. You're right though, Tibs, I'd say these two are neck-and-neck.
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Adam Mitchell
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Wolfpack48 wrote:
The closest I have seen to Mistrust in terms of nastiness is Riots, but I actually think Mistrust is worse since items are much harder to come by than Stamina. Both are evil because of the quick turnaround needed (3 turns). I suppose I never minded The Terrible Experiment or Good Work Undone because they at least have a fairly long period before they expire, and you can manage them. But it's very difficult to manage the discarding of items in the hopes you can regain them in the early part of the game.

Sure, if Mistrust hits late in the game, it's less of an issue because investigators have more items by then, and even if they decide to let it fail, 0 Focus is much less harmful in the endgame if you are prepped for the final battle.

I guess the combination of the extremely short reaction time and the game long penalty of 0 Focus so early is what really got our goat. I can see how Cover-up might edge out Mistrust, but I think Cover-up is much more situation-dependent (how many clues are on the board?) than Mistrust. Late in the game, it wouldn't hit as hard either. You're right though, Tibs, I'd say these two are neck-and-neck.


I would argue Cover-Up wins the race by a substantial margin, because when Failed it doesn't just take away Clues from the board; it takes away all Clues the Investigators have as wellsurprise! Never, in over a hundred games of Arkham Horror, have we Failed the Cover-Up Rumor and still succeeded in sealing away the Ancient One.
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Tibs
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But as annoying as that is, you can get clues back. And if you happen to be fresh off of a set of seals, you won't have that many clues to lose. AND you may also have plenty of trophies to dissect at the Science Building.

On the other hand, failing Mistrust means your sliders are locked in place and you can never trade items anymore. There's no bouncing back from that.
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Adam Mitchell
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kungfro wrote:
But as annoying as that is, you can get clues back. And if you happen to be fresh off of a set of seals, you won't have that many clues to lose. AND you may also have plenty of trophies to dissect at the Science Building.

On the other hand, failing Mistrust means your sliders are locked in place and you can never trade items anymore. There's no bouncing back from that.


I would argue you don't need to bounce back from having your sliders locked and being unable to trade, because neither are anywhere near as important as having the Clues to seal gates.

Arkham Horror is fundamentally a race against time; fail the Cover-Up or Nightmare Pool and you've just lost too much time to ever make it back up, in my experience. You WILL face the Ancient One, and for a lot of Ancient Ones, this means you will lose.


 
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Wolfie
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Which is worse, Cover-Up or Mistrust? "It depends."

If either of these hits at the beginning of the game, I'd say Mistrust is more devastating. While losing all the clues on the board and with investigators is bad, clues can be generated using gate or monster trophies, encounters and the standard Mythos turn. Some investigators (Diana, Rex) can even generate clues. Mistrust locks your sliders for the rest of the game with no chance ever of getting that ability back. That means every. single. skill. check. is hampered, and you'll end up burning clues to pretty much do anything for the rest of the game. If you want to avoid Mistrust, you'll need to burn all your items and start over. This can be especially brutal because items are much harder to come by than clues. Neither Rumor is easily solvable at this time (few items and monster trophies for either).

Cover-Up can be much more devastating mid-game, when you are on the verge of sealing a number of gates and have collected many clues (and when the doom track has advanced a bit). By mid-game with Mistrust, you might have more items to burn and can actually avoid it by getting rid of some less needed items. Both Rumors are more solvable by mid-game, but losing items hurts more than spending monster trophies.

Both Rumors are less evil towards end-game, and both are more likely to be solved. However, locking sliders at end game can have a significant impact on the final battle if the game is going that way at this point, depending on the Ancient One.
 
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