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Subject: Turtling..... rss

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Andrew Johnson
United States
Orland Park
Illinois
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What a pain. A lot of people complain about the sin turtling up in a single room since ranged cannot shoot through windows. Is or are there effective ways to deal with this? So far I can think of one: give extra turns to the wolfman (sorry, don't have my book by me and I don't remember names), have him move six spaces to span most of the map, and then if he doesn't reach the obvious turtle point, give him the extra turn again to move, and attack; or move/attack and attack again, cleanse, etc.

Any thoughts? Any other strategies? It's obvious that if the sin can start pulling it off, they will create a next with fire, pentagrams, etc across a turn or two to max the token effects (since you can't lay all three on the same spot in one turn). How would you deter this from happening?
 
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J M
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Scottdale
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Monsters can't move out of spaces with heroes in them so perhaps the Faith players need to work their turns so they're pinning monsters in place, or blocking any movement into the snuggle pile location.
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Mark Blasco

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It has been discussed many times in the forum. A lot of the general suggestions are to use the orbital laser, place heroes outside of the turtle point so that monsters can't move through them, have ranged fighters in a good place to shoot monsters before they can move in. Alternately, if the final objective is to kill certain monsters, the heroes can ignore it and spend some time getting as many upgrades and powerups as possible, then sacrifice themselves to go in and roll a ton of dice and kill what they need to kill. If the Sin player is focusing just on grouping up, they won't be focusing on killing heroes. Since a dead hero passes upgrades onto their replacement, you can sacrifice someone in the fight with 4 upgrade cards, and their replacement will also have 4 upgrade cards, which means you can run in there again for an additional suicide run. It doesn't matter if the heroes survive, as long as they finish the objective.
 
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Geoff ...
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If we are talking about "kill monster X" type objectives;

Remember that monsters roll no defence whatsoever, so if a monster is a big fat 7/7, heroes need 7 hits irrespective of Sin rolls. A hero at max corruption scores 4 auto-hits, and need only roll 3 hits to take out an avatar.

Additionally, the heroes choose who the attack hits, so turtling does not protect a monster.

I think there are many people who play this like an RPG and try to keep their hero alive and at full health -- when the better play is almost always to take corruption, forced wounds via moving through monsters, and suicide runs. When played this way, we've had about a 60/40 win-rate for sin/faith, and that's with a more experienced sin player.
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Andrew Johnson
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That's good news. On our second run through we paid more attention to killing monsters before getting to the turtle point. We didn't "pin" them by occupying their space and not moving. The sins player still managed a few tokens in the cluster and it wiped out the last hero on a fire check for the faith loss.

We were, like you said, too concerned to keep heroes at full health and wouldn't run from monsters for the sake of movement. My group and I have played a lot of RPG's in video game format so I suppose it's ingrained in our heads to assume to play that way.
 
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Brian M
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Thornton
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Quote:
If we a talking about "kill monster X" type objectives;

Turtling seems far more problematic in scenarios in which the heroes need to completely remove eliminate all the monsters from a space.
 
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Claus Appel
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Geoff wrote:
A hero at max corruption scores 4 auto-hits

Wait, what? How?
 
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Geoff ...
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SpectrumDT wrote:
Geoff wrote:
A hero at max corruption scores 4 auto-hits

Wait, what? How?

The fist symbol on your hero dashboard is an auto-hit.

Corruption spot 3 of 6 = 1 fist.
Corruption spot 5 of 6 = 2 fists.
Corruption spot 6 of 6 = your choice (which includes 1 fist).

= 4 auto-hits.
 
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Claus Appel
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Geoff wrote:
SpectrumDT wrote:
Geoff wrote:
A hero at max corruption scores 4 auto-hits

Wait, what? How?

The fist symbol on your hero dashboard is an auto-hit.

Corruption spot 3 of 6 = 1 fist.
Corruption spot 5 of 6 = 2 fists.
Corruption spot 6 of 6 = your choice (which includes 1 fist).

= 4 auto-hits.

But Corruption bonuses do not stack. Taking Voluntary Corruption gives you a one-time bonus to the current die roll - and then the bonus is over and gone, while the Corruption remains. (And you can only take one Voluntary Corruption per dice roll, not many.)
 
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reaching out from the in-between spaces...
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Baldwin
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SpectrumDT wrote:
Geoff wrote:
SpectrumDT wrote:
Geoff wrote:
A hero at max corruption scores 4 auto-hits

Wait, what? How?

The fist symbol on your hero dashboard is an auto-hit.

Corruption spot 3 of 6 = 1 fist.
Corruption spot 5 of 6 = 2 fists.
Corruption spot 6 of 6 = your choice (which includes 1 fist).

= 4 auto-hits.

But Corruption bonuses do not stack. Taking Voluntary Corruption gives you a one-time bonus to the current die roll - and then the bonus is over and gone, while the Corruption remains. (And you can only take one Voluntary Corruption per dice roll, not many.)


I don't have the rulebook with me but looking at Universal Heads Player Aid (available in the files section), he states:


When a hero takes corruption this way, and only then, he adds to his current roll all the bonuses visible on his Corruption track, under the corruption level he just reached and all levels before (to the left of) that. These bonuses only apply for the dice roll performed immediately upon taking the voluntary corruption. In subsequent rolls the hero gains no bonuses from his corruption track whatsoever, unless he takes voluntary corruption again.

_________

So yeah, it appears they do stack.
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Frank La Terra
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SpectrumDT wrote:
Geoff wrote:
SpectrumDT wrote:
Geoff wrote:
A hero at max corruption scores 4 auto-hits

Wait, what? How?

The fist symbol on your hero dashboard is an auto-hit.

Corruption spot 3 of 6 = 1 fist.
Corruption spot 5 of 6 = 2 fists.
Corruption spot 6 of 6 = your choice (which includes 1 fist).

= 4 auto-hits.

But Corruption bonuses do not stack. Taking Voluntary Corruption gives you a one-time bonus to the current die roll - and then the bonus is over and gone, while the Corruption remains. (And you can only take one Voluntary Corruption per dice roll, not many.)


Nope, they stack. They don't STAY. In other words 1 voluntary corruption gives you a bonus for ONE DIE ROLL ONLY but you get all the bonuses up to that point (minus any covered by wounds.)
So taking voluntary corruption to level 7 makes you a god damn powerhouse for that attack.

Re-read the rulebook and the examples. This is a key rule and if your not stacking the heroes will not stand a chance in this game.
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Sammy
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SpectrumDT wrote:

But Corruption bonuses do not stack. Taking Voluntary Corruption gives you a one-time bonus to the current die roll - and then the bonus is over and gone, while the Corruption remains. (And you can only take one Voluntary Corruption per dice roll, not many.)


Oh man, you've been very cruel to your heroes!!
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Claus Appel
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Jorune wrote:
SpectrumDT wrote:
Geoff wrote:
SpectrumDT wrote:
Geoff wrote:
A hero at max corruption scores 4 auto-hits

Wait, what? How?

The fist symbol on your hero dashboard is an auto-hit.

Corruption spot 3 of 6 = 1 fist.
Corruption spot 5 of 6 = 2 fists.
Corruption spot 6 of 6 = your choice (which includes 1 fist).

= 4 auto-hits.

But Corruption bonuses do not stack. Taking Voluntary Corruption gives you a one-time bonus to the current die roll - and then the bonus is over and gone, while the Corruption remains. (And you can only take one Voluntary Corruption per dice roll, not many.)


I don't have the rulebook with me but looking at Universal Heads Player Aid (available in the files section), he states:


When a hero takes corruption this way, and only then, he adds to his current roll all the bonuses visible on his Corruption track, under the corruption level he just reached and all levels before (to the left of) that. These bonuses only apply for the dice roll performed immediately upon taking the voluntary corruption. In subsequent rolls the hero gains no bonuses from his corruption track whatsoever, unless he takes voluntary corruption again.

_________

So yeah, it appears they do stack.

Damn. You're right.

That does make sense. I had wondered why Voluntary Corruption was so big a deal, since it seems to suck. No wonder my heroes were getting beaten to a pulp.
 
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