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Subject: [NON-SPOILERS] Failing an Endeavor rss

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We had a question for clarification that came up.

During an endeavor, is it consider failing if there is a natural roll of all blank faces? Like is this a critical failure and you cannot use fortune tokens to change the blanks to successes so your turn immediately ends?
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David desJardins
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Roll all the dice in your dice pool and count your successes. If the site is not dangerous, you may spend fortune to change blank dice into a standard success, one die per token spent. ....

If you did not roll a single success, or if your ship sank as a result of taking damage, the endeavor is a failure and your turn ends immediately. Otherwise, you succeed (even if you took damage).


While you could read the rules literally as you say, my understanding is that if you have at least one success after spending fortune, and you don't sink, then you succeed.
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Thomas Robb
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I agree with David's assessment.

Don't forget damage to the Flag Ship. Rolling all blanks (even if changing one die to a success with a fortune token, could mean sinking of the ship with all that damage.

If the site had a red defense color, then you could not use a fortune token to help (unless you had an active advisors Advanced Scout or Local Guide).

I cannot remember any rule in the rule book discussing all blank dice rolls and any text stating discussion of critical failures.

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Clinton Rice
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I concur. Spending fortune to turn a total failure into a costly success feels appropriate. If rolling all blanks meant you are not allowed to spend fortune, this would have been pointed out in the manual.
 
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DaviddesJ wrote:

While you could read the rules literally as you say, my understanding is that if you have at least one success after spending fortune, and you don't sink, then you succeed.


Right, that's why I wanted to ask for clarification because either interpretation has textual evidence behind them. Spending fortune seems like it could be considered to not rolling a success and thus "if you did not roll a single success" would apply pre-fortune. My own feeling is that you can spend the fortune, but I wanted designer input on this.

(Also, it's kind of weird to think about reading rules and technical writing "non-literally".)
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David desJardins
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natureslayer wrote:
(Also, it's kind of weird to think about reading rules and technical writing "non-literally".)


My experience is that if you want to grasp the designer's intent, you generally have to understand the style of that particular author, and how precise they tend to be in their wording, so as to not interpret things in an overly literal way.

Perhaps all board game designers and authors should convey all rules in a highly technical and precise style. But my experience is that they don't.
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Chris Boote
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I'm going to go the other way, by cutting out subordinate clauses

Quote:
Roll all the dice in your dice pool and count your successes ... If you did not roll a single success ... the endeavour is a failure and your turn ends immediately


To my mind the important word is 'ROLL', not 'end up with'

Sometimes, Lady Luck hates you
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Al Ross
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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read. - Groucho Marx
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Chrisboote wrote:

Always, Lady Luck hates Albatros


FTFY
 
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Chris Willott
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My first inclination was to say that you could change some of the all blanks to be successful:
- Since using fortune is mentioned after counting successes, but before "if you did not roll a single success", it seemed to imply that modifiers could come first.

-- but then I read this again (under "Endeavors"):

Quote:
An endeavour is successful if you roll at least one success and your flagship doesn't sink.


Interesting related note: (box 5 spoiler)
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Even with your +9 success from the Temple, it seems you could still fail endeavours by rolling all blanks, and that is a GOOD thing!

 
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Chris Willott
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I would also say, that although the RAW read as though you have definitely failed the endeavour, that you can still use fortune tokens to reduce damage (though not to turn the endeavour into a success.
 
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Becq Starforged
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While I can see it being interpreted other ways, my read is that you make your roll, use fortune to change your roll, and only then check to determine success or failure. Since spending fortune physically changes your dice by shifting them to a different face, I interpret that as "altering what you rolled" and therefore counting for purposes of determining whether you "rolled" at least one success.

If fortune was intended to only count for reducing damage taken, it would have been far easier to write the rules to say "you can spend fortune to reduce damage taken on a one for one basis" or something similar, but the rules specifically allow you to buy successes by changing dice with blank faces into standard success faces.

^^^ Opinion, not confirmed clarification.
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Chris Willott
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Conversely, it would have been even easier to write: "If you have at least one success..."

P.s. geekmail sent requesting official clarification
 
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Darren Nakamura
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Yes, if it were written as "if the result has at least one success," it'd be better, but I agree with Becq here.
 
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Becq Starforged
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Willottica wrote:
Conversely, it would have been even easier to write: "If you have at least one success..."

P.s. geekmail sent requesting official clarification

While I don't disagree on a purely literal perspective, as a long time gamer, I interpret the question "What did you roll?" as actually meaning "What is the end result of your roll?" For example, if I'm playing D&D, I can honestly roll a d20 and say "I rolled a 23." I know that it is, literally, impossible to roll a '23' on a normal d20, but I also know that in the context of a D7D game, the result of the "roll" is actually the raw die roll plus (or minus) a modifier.

Similarly, it is my understanding that the result of a "roll" in SeaFall is the number of successes, after modification due to various powers that may impact the result, and due to fortune spent.

In any case, if you get an official clarification that says otherwise, I'll support that clarification.
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Chris Willott
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We've got a reply from Rob:
Willottica wrote:
Hi Rob,

So, if I roll all blank can I:
a) change some to successes with fortune (when allowed) and make my endeavour a success?
b) change some to successes with fortune (when allowed) and reduce the amount of damage taken, though it's still a failed endeavour?
c) not change any with fortune, because my endeavour is a failure and my turn ends immediately.

Quote:

The answer is a. You can apply fortune immediately before evaluating the roll.


Willottica wrote:
Further, if I have the temple or a chart which adds "successes" that still aren't rolled, and I roll all blanks but have enough bonus successes to succeed:
d) Do I still fail the endeavour because I didn't ROLL any successes?

Quote:

You need at least one rolled success to apply a chart or other power.
 
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Chris Willott
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New Question:
If I roll all blanks at a dangerous site, but have someone like "The Foreman" as my active advisor, my turn ends "immediately", but I still have to exhaust the Foreman, and do I therefore get to hire an advisor just before exhausting him?
Quote:
At the end of your turn, before exhausting the Foreman, you may hire...
 
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(PSN) SilentSniper_X_
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I would say yes you may still resolve that ability. I think when it says your turn ends it refers just to your action phase. That was an impressive roll
 
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