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Paths of Glory» Forums » Rules

Subject: BEF Army loss rss

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Mat Danel
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Question:

A stack of the BR-BEF army and the BE1 army attacks and takes 7 losses.

It's clear that first the BR-BEF army is reduced with the first 3 LF (12.4.5).
But after that, is their a choice for the next 3 LF, or 12.4.5 still applies and BR-BEF army HAS to be replaced by the BR-BEF Corps?

I ask this question because the FAQ is confusing for me:
p.9: 1st question about MEF, we can read:
"12.4.5 demands that the BEF is replaced with the BEF corps first", with BR-BEF and BR1 in the attacking stack.
But the rules seems to be only for the 1st step..
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Kristian Thy
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12.4.5 only applies to the first step loss taken. What you do thereafter is up to you, as long as you comply with 12.4.3. This means you have the choice of eliminating the [BEF] or flipping BE1; both fulfill 3 out of 4 remaining losses with no way to take the last.

In the FAQ answer they leave out a bit of their reasoning. 12.4.5 says that you have to flip the BEF first. However, now you're stuck with a reduced BEF plus BR1 and BR2 at full strength, and you still need to fulfill 4 losses. Flipping BR1 or BR2 leaves you with 2 unfulfilled losses. Eliminating [BEF] leaves you with 1 unfulfilled loss, as the BEFc has a loss factor of 2. What the FAQ item is intended to illustrate is just that 12.4.5 takes precedence over 12.4.3, as it means you end up taking 6 rather than 7 losses. But it is rather badly worded.
 
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Tom Gregorio
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Please do not count on the GMT FAQ as being authoritative. It was culled from CSW posts, some of them from 15 years ago, that have long been superseded or overruled. For example, that same FAQ, on page 12, says you can't SR the Montenegro corps; this is specifically allowed in the current version of the rules.

Speaking to the situation cited by the OP, after BEF is flipped, Kristian's statement "flipping BR1 or BR2 leaves you with 2 unfulfilled losses" is incorrect. BEF and BR1 or BR2 flipping is 6LF leaving ONE unfulfilled loss.

While that FAQ is useful, please bear in mind that it is out-of-date and often not aligned with the game rules as they exist today.
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Mat Danel
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thank you a lot for the answer, and advice!
mat
 
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Tom Gregorio
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You're welcome.

PS: I notice I did not directly comment on the correct resolution of your example. In the situation you cited, BEF would indeed take the first 3LF of the 7LF result, but, after that, you can flip one of the OTHER AP armies. In other words, the flipped BEF would NOT have to take the next 3LF. (Unless, of course, the BEFc was somehow already flipped in the RB.)
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Kristian Thy
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gregorit wrote:
Speaking to the situation cited by the OP, after BEF is flipped, Kristian's statement "flipping BR1 or BR2 leaves you with 2 unfulfilled losses" is incorrect. BEF and BR1 or BR2 flipping is 6LF leaving ONE unfulfilled loss.


You are perfectly correct. I was trying to make their example make sense; it turns out it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. There is no need to eliminate the BEF as you point out.

gregorit wrote:
In other words, the flipped BEF would NOT have to take the next 3LF. (Unless, of course, the BEFc was somehow already flipped in the RB.)


That would be a very weird situation indeed! It would require the BEFc to SR onto the map, take a step loss and then SR back out to the reserves.
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John David Galt
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I've SRed the BEF corps onto the map before. The only penalty for doing so is that when the BEF army dies it is perm elim. Which is true anyway.
 
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Kristian Thy
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jdgalt wrote:
I've SRed the BEF corps onto the map before. The only penalty for doing so is that when the BEF army dies it is perm elim. Which is true anyway.


Oh, that's not the weird part - I've done so too on many occasions. It's the SR'ing it off map again that's weird
 
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