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Subject: Should you catcall her? rss

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This is actually pretty good!

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The answer is always no.
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Mac Mcleod
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whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


The issue is creating an apparent sexist environment for all the other women and men who you didn't get consent from isn't it?

Still free speech. But bad example for all the people who don't magically know you have explicit consent.
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whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?
 
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maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?


Some girls appreciate it and like it.
Most probably don't though.
 
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Robert Wesley
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whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.
TheDashi wrote:
No it isn't.
/kiss\ 'stereotypical' "Attention Whores" EXCEPTED! C`mon! Were you 'blinded' by "SENTIENCE!" surprise
 
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Mac Mcleod
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TheDashi wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?


Some girls appreciate it and like it.
Most probably don't though.


Thank you. Great direct on topic answer. I appreciate that!

Most won't like it. So when you catcall your girlfriend with others around you are making most females in the area (and some males) uncomfortable so you and she can have a little fun.

Look, I agree the answer isn't "always" no. There will be special circumstances where everyone is fine with catcalling. But those are pretty tiny edge cases.

The problem with catcalling is not about you and her.

It's the other people around you who you are inflicting your catcall on.

Some clueless men who do not know that you have explicit consent from a person you know well to catcall her are going to get the impression catcalling strangers is okay again.

Many women in the area will feel uncomfortable.

It's more fun to be oblivious to other people and just focus on your own selfish needs tho. It can feel oppressive to always be considering how other people are going to feel.
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Christopher Seguin
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maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?


Because, like the box said, if you know each other and have consensually agreed to exchange verbal catcalls in public with each other, then it is permissible.

It may be "tacky" to outsiders, but it certainly is permissible.

Back before a friend of mine got married and moved away, we ran into each other at our FLGS on a regular basis. We had nicknames for each other, and some of them were not quite "catcalls", but certainly would raise an eyebrow for those around us. My favorite nickname for her was "bitches". But we knew each other, and we both mutually agreed it that it was okay behavior.

So remind me again where the problem is in this situation?

EDIT: Okay, never mind about that last questions, I read your answer. That seems reasonable as to why it wouldn't be appropriate. However, I am of the mindset that if you overhear a conversation between two other people, and you are not part or privy to that conversation other than by heresay, then too bad if you are offended by such conversation. That doesn't mean that saying "gay people are xxx" from one person to another within earshot to outsiders is acceptable - it's not. What is acceptable is if I call her "bitches" with her direct approval, if it offends others within earshot, I say "oh well". "Generalized" catcalls or other offensive language is NOT OKAY. Specific name calling as a means of jovial communication, no matter how offensive to others, is acceptable.
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Not sure if I ever catcalled a woman. Its the human equivalent of a dog marking its territory.
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Robert Wesley
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So, QUITE "becoming" a 'Lesbian' then, eh? blush
 
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chrisnd wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?


Because, like the box said, if you know each other and have consensually agreed to exchange verbal catcalls in public with each other, then it is permissible.

It may be "tacky" to outsiders, but it certainly is permissible.

Back before a friend of mine got married and moved away, we ran into each other at our FLGS on a regular basis. We had nicknames for each other, and some of them were not quite "catcalls", but certainly would raise an eyebrow for those around us. My favorite nickname for her was "bitches". But we knew each other, and we both mutually agreed it that it was okay behavior.

So remind me again where the problem is in this situation?

EDIT: Okay, never mind about that last questions, I read your answer. That seems reasonable as to why it wouldn't be appropriate. However, I am of the mindset that if you overhear a conversation between two other people, and you are not part or privy to that conversation other than by heresay, then too bad if you are offended by such conversation. That doesn't mean that saying "gay people are xxx" from one person to another within earshot to outsiders is acceptable - it's not. What is acceptable is if I call her "bitches" with her direct approval, if it offends others within earshot, I say "oh well". "Generalized" catcalls or other offensive language is NOT OKAY. Specific name calling as a means of jovial communication, no matter how offensive to others, is acceptable.


Aye.

Consider that a catcall isn't at a conversational term.

So, think about walking into the grand hall at BGGCON, seeing your girlfriend a few tables away and shouting, "YO! BITCHES!". She looks up and smiles-- the rest of the crowd thinks you called them bitches.



I think catcalling is still okay in some cultures but I think it's a pretty good indicator of male dominance and oppression in those cultures.
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maxo-texas wrote:
So, think about walking into the grand hall at BGGCON, seeing your girlfriend a few tables away and shouting, "YO! BITCHES!". She looks up and smiles-- the rest of the crowd thinks you called them bitches.
red black wrote:
Flowchart?
wow GROGnads SEZ: "YO Bitches!" <------> meant for A-L-L-!<------>"umbrageboner": Yes, even the Women! \/kiss\
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GROGnads wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
So, think about walking into the grand hall at BGGCON, seeing your girlfriend a few tables away and shouting, "YO! BITCHES!". She looks up and smiles-- the rest of the crowd thinks you called them bitches.
red black wrote:
Flowchart?
wow GROGnads SEZ: "YO Bitches!" <------> meant for A-L-L-!<------>"umbrageboner": Yes, even the Women! \/kiss\


I'm pretty sure you would have had writing credits if you sat with Bowie and Eno at Hansa Studios.
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Robert Wesley
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Re: Should you catcall her? MEOWS up to 11
whistle ~"Suffragette-SETTER Edge City!"
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Boaty McBoatface
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TheDashi wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?


Some girls appreciate it and like it.
Most probably don't though.
Some people like being urinated on, would you be OK for a random stranger to piss on you?

Would you be OK with seeing it in public?
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slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?


Some girls appreciate it and like it.
Most probably don't though.
Some people like being urinated on, would you be OK for a random stranger to piss on you?

Would you be OK with seeing it in public?


Yeah that seems fine.

I guess I'm ok with catcalling after all!
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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galad2003 wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?


Some girls appreciate it and like it.
Most probably don't though.
Some people like being urinated on, would you be OK for a random stranger to piss on you?

Would you be OK with seeing it in public?


When the fuck does your game arrive?
Ask the person who sent it, or you could buy some slater free zone now.
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maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?


Some girls appreciate it and like it.
Most probably don't though.
The problem with catcalling is not about you and her.

It's the other people around you who you are inflicting your catcall on.

But this isn't really a sound justification for not doing something. We can't constantly expect other people to adjust their behavior because we might find something they do offensive. So now the whole world is to become "our" safe place?

We don't like to hear catcalls - can't do that here.

We don't like the sound of high pitch laughter - sorry, you aren't allowed to laugh.

We don't like the smell or BO or farts or halitosis or strong perfume, deodorant, cologne - sorry, you can't stink in public.
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Boaty McBoatface
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JohnnyOffice wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?


Some girls appreciate it and like it.
Most probably don't though.
The problem with catcalling is not about you and her.

It's the other people around you who you are inflicting your catcall on.

But this isn't really a sound justification for not doing something. We can't constantly expect other people to adjust their behavior because we might find something they do offensive. So now the whole world is to become "our" safe place?

We don't like to hear catcalls - can't do that here.

We don't like the sound of high pitch laughter - sorry, you aren't allowed to laugh.

We don't like the smell or BO or farts or halitosis or strong perfume, deodorant, cologne - sorry, you can't stink in public.
Want to eat here, wear a tie. want to drink here no work boots.

No swearing, no pissing in public (hell no pissing in certain rooms if you are the wrong sex), no begging no this no that no the other.

Society is full of rules about what is an is not allowed in public.
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John Hathorn
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slatersteven wrote:
JohnnyOffice wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?


Some girls appreciate it and like it.
Most probably don't though.
The problem with catcalling is not about you and her.

It's the other people around you who you are inflicting your catcall on.

But this isn't really a sound justification for not doing something. We can't constantly expect other people to adjust their behavior because we might find something they do offensive. So now the whole world is to become "our" safe place?

We don't like to hear catcalls - can't do that here.

We don't like the sound of high pitch laughter - sorry, you aren't allowed to laugh.

We don't like the smell or BO or farts or halitosis or strong perfume, deodorant, cologne - sorry, you can't stink in public.
Want to eat here, wear a tie. want to drink here no work boots.

No swearing, no pissing in public (hell no pissing in certain rooms if you are the wrong sex), no begging no this no that no the other.

Society is full of rules about what is an is not allowed in public.

Yes, those are called laws and enforceable through the justice system.

Trespassing covers your restaurant example. Cops will arrest you if the manager tell you to leave for not meeting the dress code/requested attire and you refuse.

Pissing in public is enforced via the law.

Swearing in public is actually a great example that reinforces my argument, so thank you for that. It happens all the fucking time (see, I just did it there). There's no legal mechanism to enforce here; no way for you to "make" me bow to your desire not to hear the shit that is coming out of my mouth.

Some are attempting to redefine what makes a society successful. If we go too far down this path, NO ONE WILL EVER BE ALLOWED OUTSIDE THEIR HOMES AGAIN! (and yes, I am yelling that)
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Boaty McBoatface
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JohnnyOffice wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
JohnnyOffice wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?


Some girls appreciate it and like it.
Most probably don't though.
The problem with catcalling is not about you and her.

It's the other people around you who you are inflicting your catcall on.

But this isn't really a sound justification for not doing something. We can't constantly expect other people to adjust their behavior because we might find something they do offensive. So now the whole world is to become "our" safe place?

We don't like to hear catcalls - can't do that here.

We don't like the sound of high pitch laughter - sorry, you aren't allowed to laugh.

We don't like the smell or BO or farts or halitosis or strong perfume, deodorant, cologne - sorry, you can't stink in public.
Want to eat here, wear a tie. want to drink here no work boots.

No swearing, no pissing in public (hell no pissing in certain rooms if you are the wrong sex), no begging no this no that no the other.

Society is full of rules about what is an is not allowed in public.

Yes, those are called laws and enforceable through the justice system.

Trespassing covers your restaurant example. Cops will arrest you if the manager tell you to leave for not meeting the dress code/requested attire and you refuse.

Pissing in public is enforced via the law.

Swearing in public is actually a great example that reinforces my argument, so thank you for that. It happens all the fucking time (see, I just did it there). There's no legal mechanism to enforce here; no way for you to "make" me bow to your desire not to hear the shit that is coming out of my mouth.

Some are attempting to redefine what makes a society successful. If we go too far down this path, NO ONE WILL EVER BE ALLOWED OUTSIDE THEIR HOMES AGAIN! (and yes, I am yelling that)
Actually there is, it can be done when it becomes harassment or threatening. And cat calling has been described as both.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/remember-profanity-isnt-...
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slatersteven wrote:
JohnnyOffice wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
JohnnyOffice wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
whac3 wrote:
The answer is always no.


No it isn't.


Why?


Some girls appreciate it and like it.
Most probably don't though.
The problem with catcalling is not about you and her.

It's the other people around you who you are inflicting your catcall on.

But this isn't really a sound justification for not doing something. We can't constantly expect other people to adjust their behavior because we might find something they do offensive. So now the whole world is to become "our" safe place?

We don't like to hear catcalls - can't do that here.

We don't like the sound of high pitch laughter - sorry, you aren't allowed to laugh.

We don't like the smell or BO or farts or halitosis or strong perfume, deodorant, cologne - sorry, you can't stink in public.
Want to eat here, wear a tie. want to drink here no work boots.

No swearing, no pissing in public (hell no pissing in certain rooms if you are the wrong sex), no begging no this no that no the other.

Society is full of rules about what is an is not allowed in public.

Yes, those are called laws and enforceable through the justice system.

Trespassing covers your restaurant example. Cops will arrest you if the manager tell you to leave for not meeting the dress code/requested attire and you refuse.

Pissing in public is enforced via the law.

Swearing in public is actually a great example that reinforces my argument, so thank you for that. It happens all the fucking time (see, I just did it there). There's no legal mechanism to enforce here; no way for you to "make" me bow to your desire not to hear the shit that is coming out of my mouth.

Some are attempting to redefine what makes a society successful. If we go too far down this path, NO ONE WILL EVER BE ALLOWED OUTSIDE THEIR HOMES AGAIN! (and yes, I am yelling that)
Actually there is, it can be done when it becomes harassment or threatening. And cat calling has been described as both.

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/remember-profanity-isnt-...


Slater's Article wrote:
Certain categories of speech are not entitled to First Amendment protection, including fighting words, true threats and incitement to imminent lawless action. If a person engages in profane fighting words or utters a true threat with profanity, those words may not be protected speech.

Likewise, a speaker who uses profanity to stir up a crowd to immediate lawless action (like a riot) may have crossed the line from protected speech into unprotected incitement.

This doesn't say that profanity is illegal or not protected. It actually doesn't even come close. The context of what is being said, the meaning of the entirety of the speech, is what may not be protected. Profanity is just "flavoring" in the speech. "Fighting words," "true threats" and incitement to riot can all be performed quite effectively with plain, everyday words and without profanity.

Slater's Article wrote:
Furthermore, though you may have a right to curse on the street, don’t assume you have a right to curse at your public employer or at your public school. Context — as well as content — is important in First Amendment law. The government has greater power to regulate speech when it acts as employer or educator than it does when it acts as sovereign.

This isn't news. Profane or not: employers can limit an employee's speech and business' can limit the speech of their customers.

Your going to have a hard time convincing a jury, unanimously, that a catcall is threatening. Harassment is a better bet, but even that would be long shot if it's not established that it's unwanted behavior.

And that's really the question: where do we draw the line as a society? Catcalls become legal harassment today. Tomorrow it's leering. Saturday it's just looking at another person (because that woman in that picture upthread shouldn't be made to feel unattractive because men don't glance at her when she walks down the street). Sunday you won't be allowed within 30 ft of a potentially offended individual in addition to not being able to look up from the pavement. Then we move onto odors and categorize them as unwanted public behaviors making that legal harassment, too.

It's bullshit. It's thought policing. It's insane.
 
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https://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=34258
Quote:
Obscenity

Most forms of obscenity are protected by the First Amendment. However, there is a high threshold that must be met in order for obscenity not to be protected, which includes
Quote:
showing that the language appeals to the prurient interest in sex
, that it depicts
Quote:
something that is considered patently offensive based on contemporary community standards
and that it lacks serious literary, scientific or artistic value


So this might well include "OI darling get em out for the lad!".

Quote:
Libel and Slander

The First Amendment does not protect individuals from facing civil penalties if they defame another person through written or verbal communication.


Might also cover certain types of cat calls

"Oi how much do you charge for a blow job".

And yes, walking past the same blokes every day having them shout "Phoor look at the norks on that!" is harassment. If someone does not want your attention you should not have a legal right to give it.

Maybe if more men did not think they had a right to h arras women there would be fewer men who thought molesting drunk women was acceptable.
 
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