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Subject: How long until hospitals start charging for standing on the floor? rss

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I am sure single payer will cover it.

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2016/10/05/utah-father-says-wa...
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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Yes it would, that is the point of it.

You do not pay at point of delivery.

But if course the father is talking bollocks and this was a charge for an extra nurse.
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Andrew Bartosh

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TheDashi wrote:


Apparently they should've picked picked another hospital to give birth in.
 
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Who would know that or even think to ask that question?
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Andrew Bartosh

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TheDashi wrote:
Who would know that or even think to ask that question?


The crafty consumer.
 
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"Are you going to charge me if I hold the baby right after it is born?"

"Oh, god yes sir. And This is typically something that the insurance company will laugh at if you ask them to cover it."
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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The Invisible Hand of the free market does not suffer ignorant consumers.
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Lee Fisher
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TheDashi wrote:
"Are you going to charge me if I hold the baby right after it is born?"

"Oh, god yes sir. And This is typically something that the insurance company will laugh at if you ask them to cover it."


Or you could read the rest of the article.
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Andrew Bartosh

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All joking aside for a moment, this is kind of the issue with medical care on the whole. Even assuming you consider the charge legitimate based on the additional explanation provided in the article, most people are just going to lack the wherewithal (or ability) to really do "smart" business, as they are a captive audience and, realistically, will often not have a choice in which hospital is servicing them.

Insurance is an absolute necessity to avoid getting wrung out, especially since, from what I have gathered, hospital prices tend to ALSO be inflated because of the relationship they have with insurance companies as they both jockey to get the money and pay the least possible, leaving people caught out pretty fucked.

It's messy.
 
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Lone Locust of the Apocalypse
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AndrewRogue wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Who would know that or even think to ask that question?


The crafty consumer.


Or, women in general.
 
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Agent J
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They should probably label their bill better.

Also, if that's an important thing, then maybe that should be part of the standard charge instead of a separate line item.

Just trust them, they're the medical community, they wouldn't mess up billing.
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TheDashi wrote:


I get your outrage, but I don't get your conservative outrage.

How does the free market protect against collusion without outside regulation?

As a capitalist, hidden fees and charges are part and parcel of, what is it, your financial responsibility to your employees?
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
If you want to increase the cost of something, subsidize it!


I often agree with this sentiment -- corn subsidies are goofy, gasoline subsidies are iffy as so many people depend on them to commute in America, and though I'd rather UBI replaced this system, as it stands I don't see a great alternative w/o reforms.

But health isn't a commodity, and we have a moral obligation to not let people die. We already accept this legally -- emergency rooms must provide life-saving support. Prophylactic medicine would be cheaper, so why not go that route, as we've already accepted that we must save people's lives?

Having cheaper insurance that is cheaper because it excludes the least healthy is no insurance at all.
 
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Jeff Brown
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Most countries who have single payer tend to do better at controlling costs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

numbers come from OECD and WHO
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jeff brown wrote:


Most countries who have single payer tend to do better at controlling costs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

numbers come from OECD and WHO


The (somewhat meaningful) counterargument is that, if money is not an object, you will receive better health care in the US.

(This is not mutually exclusive with providing health care for the poor, but people oddly believe it is so. This comes from an idea that doctors in America will be paid less if socialized medicine became a reality, but doctors have no real alternatives to chase salary alone even if the above scenario was true.)

But yes, in reality, it means that we as a nation have a worse health care system if you measure the health of our people -- and that's important (and sometimes overlooked.)
 
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Wendell
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Terwox wrote:
jeff brown wrote:


Most countries who have single payer tend to do better at controlling costs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

numbers come from OECD and WHO


The (somewhat meaningful) counterargument is that, if money is not an object, you will receive better health care in the US.

(This is not mutually exclusive with providing health care for the poor, but people oddly believe it is so. This comes from an idea that doctors in America will be paid less if socialized medicine became a reality, but doctors have no real alternatives to chase salary alone even if the above scenario was true.)

But yes, in reality, it means that we as a nation have a worse health care system if you measure the health of our people -- and that's important (and sometimes overlooked.)


Yep. Every single country on that chart (and many other developed countries NOT included) have better life expectancies, lower infant- and maternal-death rates, etc etc than the United States. All while spending less money.
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Robert Stuart
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TheDashi wrote:


Nickel-and-diming never works. Eventually it will backfire.

("Gee, why's no one coming to our hospital anymore?")
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Steven Woodcock
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TheDashi wrote:



Wow...that's just weird.

And wrong.

But mostly weird.

I wonder how one codes that under Obamacare?


Ferret
P.S. That's weird.
 
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Walking on eggshells is not my style
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jeff brown wrote:




Health care costs as a percent of GDP

Nothing whatsoever to do with the conversation at hand.

You are welcome.
 
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Lee Fisher
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Ferretman wrote:
TheDashi wrote:



Wow...that's just weird.

And wrong.

But mostly weird.

I wonder how one codes that under Obamacare?


Ferret
P.S. That's weird.


What is weird?
 
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lfisher wrote:
Ferretman wrote:
TheDashi wrote:



Wow...that's just weird.

And wrong.

But mostly weird.

I wonder how one codes that under Obamacare?


Ferret
P.S. That's weird.


What is weird?


Sorry, you need to be human to understand.
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wifwendell wrote:
Terwox wrote:
jeff brown wrote:


Most countries who have single payer tend to do better at controlling costs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

numbers come from OECD and WHO


The (somewhat meaningful) counterargument is that, if money is not an object, you will receive better health care in the US.

(This is not mutually exclusive with providing health care for the poor, but people oddly believe it is so. This comes from an idea that doctors in America will be paid less if socialized medicine became a reality, but doctors have no real alternatives to chase salary alone even if the above scenario was true.)

But yes, in reality, it means that we as a nation have a worse health care system if you measure the health of our people -- and that's important (and sometimes overlooked.)


Yep. Every single country on that chart (and many other developed countries NOT included) have better life expectancies, lower infant- and maternal-death rates, etc etc than the United States. All while spending less money.


Some thinking would say that we fund their medical R&D for free.

(Personally I would say that there's no higher goal we could aspire to than to do so... but that's not the usual argument you'll hear about it.)
 
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Koldfoot wrote:
jeff brown wrote:




Health care costs as a percent of GDP

Nothing whatsoever to do with the conversation at hand.

You are welcome.


Uh, per capita PPP adjusted doesn't look any better:

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Boaty McBoatface
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Terwox wrote:
wifwendell wrote:
Terwox wrote:
jeff brown wrote:


Most countries who have single payer tend to do better at controlling costs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_total_hea...

numbers come from OECD and WHO


The (somewhat meaningful) counterargument is that, if money is not an object, you will receive better health care in the US.

(This is not mutually exclusive with providing health care for the poor, but people oddly believe it is so. This comes from an idea that doctors in America will be paid less if socialized medicine became a reality, but doctors have no real alternatives to chase salary alone even if the above scenario was true.)

But yes, in reality, it means that we as a nation have a worse health care system if you measure the health of our people -- and that's important (and sometimes overlooked.)


Yep. Every single country on that chart (and many other developed countries NOT included) have better life expectancies, lower infant- and maternal-death rates, etc etc than the United States. All while spending less money.


Some thinking would say that we fund their medical R&D for free.

(Personally I would say that there's no higher goal we could aspire to than to do so... but that's not the usual argument you'll hear about it.)
And some might say that is payback for thousands of years of medical advancement you got for free.

But it might be fairer to say that Europe does a lot of medical research.
 
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Agent J
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If we brought down prices here, other countries would go up to cover the difference because they'd have to pay for the R&D.
 
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