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Subject: The correct way to pronounce "Catan"! rss

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April W
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I've been so confused. I call this game Settlers of Ka-TAHN, but a lot of people I know as well as a lot of reviewers online call it Ka-TAN.

So I searched and found the answer in how Klaus and his sons pronounce it. Now I know. I'm right. I always was right. I'm right. Ignore the girl who's narrating and listen closely at 1:28. Later in the video his sons pronounce it the same way.

Now that *settles* it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niTSTcZkriA
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Stephen Eckman
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The way the creator of a thing pronounces a thing unfortunately doesn't settle it these days. See: GIF

Pronunciation also changes over time. See: Mt. Everest
 
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Désirée Greverud
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also, no reason to expect English speakers to pronounce vowel sounds the same way as Germans. Or even stress the same syllables. See: Agricola [Ah-GRIC-o-LA or ag-ri-CO-la]
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Andrew J.
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steckman wrote:
The way the creator of a thing pronounces a thing unfortunately doesn't settle it these days. See: GIF

Pronunciation also changes over time. See: Mt. Everest


GIF (as in gift) is right though. That's an example of the creator retroactively deciding on one of them to try to settle the debate, not how it should have been pronounced all along.
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Stephen Eckman
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aaj94 wrote:
That's an example of the creator retroactively deciding on one of them to try to settle the debate, not how it should have been pronounced all along.

Where did you get that information from? Everything I have seen points to the creator always pronouncing it with a soft G. Here is a good site on the subject:
http://www.olsenhome.com/gif/
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April W
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steckman wrote:
The way the creator of a thing pronounces a thing unfortunately doesn't settle it these days. See: GIF

Pronunciation also changes over time. See: Mt. Everest

Pronunciations/words change over the course of centuries, but this is a game invented in the 90s, I don't think it's going to change any time soon.

And people should also accept that GIF is pronounced as the creator intended as well. JIF.

Of course, people will always argue about everything, there's no stopping that. This matter is simply settled for me personally. I just thought I'd share my findings... ruffle some feathers and such... whistle
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April W
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DragonsDream wrote:
also, no reason to expect English speakers to pronounce vowel sounds the same way as Germans. Or even stress the same syllables. See: Agricola [Ah-GRIC-o-LA or ag-ri-CO-la]

I know most use the former. I favor the latter, but adjusted after hearing everyone on the web. But how does Uwe say it?
 
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I always thought it came from the Hebrew "ca-tan"

קטן

meaning "little" or "small".

But did Teuber actually ever say where he got the word from?
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Max DuBoff
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This was never really a dispute in the first place because the harsh nasal "a" sound in the word "fan," etc. simply doesn't exist in German, and regardless of where the name came from the game is Herman.

Soleia wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
also, no reason to expect English speakers to pronounce vowel sounds the same way as Germans. Or even stress the same syllables. See: Agricola [Ah-GRIC-o-LA or ag-ri-CO-la]

I know most use the former. I favor the latter, but adjusted after hearing everyone on the web. But how does Uwe say it?


It's a specific use of a Latin word, so this one isn't up to the designer. The former is relatively accurate.
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Dan C
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Isn't it a German city? A fictional one, but German nonetheless. Therefore pronounce it the German way is what I say.

edit: Funny how the narrator does not pronounce it "-tahn", but all the Teubers do.

edit2: insert "Let's call the whole thing off" joke here.
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Désirée Greverud
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jedimusic wrote:
Isn't it a German city? A fictional one, but German nonetheless. Therefore pronounce it the German way is what I say.

edit: Funny how the narrator does not pronounce it "-tahn", but all the Teubers do.

edit2: insert "Let's call the whole thing off" joke here.

Except Americans don't pronounce German city names the way German's do. Swedes don't pronounce French city names the way French do. Making proper names more comfortable in your native language is just something humans do. You are under no obligation to use the German pronounciation of Ka-Tahn any more than you are to refer to Germany as Deutschland.

And while not to revive that whole debate but... I don't refer to a-GRIC-ulture, so I don't say a-GRIC-o-la
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April W
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freechinanow wrote:
I always thought it came from the Hebrew "ca-tan"

קטן

meaning "little" or "small".

But did Teuber actually ever say where he got the word from?

I don't know, but I would be curious to hear how he came up with it.

jedimusic wrote:
Isn't it a German city? A fictional one, but German nonetheless. Therefore pronounce it the German way is what I say.

edit: Funny how the narrator does not pronounce it "-tahn", but all the Teubers do.

edit2: insert "Let's call the whole thing off" joke here.


It's based on an actual city I think, but the city isn't actually named Catan.

Of course, everyone is free to pronounce it however they want to. But for me "ka-tahn" seems more elegant.
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Max DuBoff
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DragonsDream wrote:
jedimusic wrote:
Isn't it a German city? A fictional one, but German nonetheless. Therefore pronounce it the German way is what I say.

edit: Funny how the narrator does not pronounce it "-tahn", but all the Teubers do.

edit2: insert "Let's call the whole thing off" joke here.

Except Americans don't pronounce German city names the way German's do. Swedes don't pronounce French city names the way French do. Making proper names more comfortable in your native language is just something humans do. You are under no obligation to use the German pronounciation of Ka-Tahn any more than you are to refer to Germany as Deutschland.

And while not to revive that whole debate but... I don't refer to a-GRIC-ulture, so I don't say a-GRIC-o-la


That's more due to intricacies of English pronunciation and how various roots have evolved into English words.
 
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howl hollow howl
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The correct way to pronounce "Catan"? I don't know, could it be \ˈsā-tən\?
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Chris Funk
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Karlsen wrote:
"Throat warbler mangrove"


Of all the places I never expected to see a Python quote... Bravo. Bravo, indeed.
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Liallan G
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DragonsDream wrote:
jedimusic wrote:
Isn't it a German city? A fictional one, but German nonetheless. Therefore pronounce it the German way is what I say.

edit: Funny how the narrator does not pronounce it "-tahn", but all the Teubers do.

edit2: insert "Let's call the whole thing off" joke here.

Except Americans don't pronounce German city names the way German's do. Swedes don't pronounce French city names the way French do. Making proper names more comfortable in your native language is just something humans do. You are under no obligation to use the German pronounciation of Ka-Tahn any more than you are to refer to Germany as Deutschland.

If a language has sounds that your own language doesn't have and it's therefore difficult to make those sounds, it's certainly understandable you'd have to adjust to what is comfortable to say. But there isn't anything difficult about saying Ka-Tahn, at least not to English speakers. We have that "ah" sound. That's the way I've always pronounced it and pretty much everyone I know does. If someone said Ka-Tan I'd wonder where they got that from.

And I'm perfectly content calling it Deutschland. I can say that, and I have never found the logic that in English it's Germany.
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Barry Harvey
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Reiner Dr. Düren
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Soleia wrote:


It's based on an actual city I think, but the city isn't actually named Catan.

....


When Klaus Teuber developed the game, which he at first called "Die Siedler" ("The settlers"), Blue Byte already had published a video game called "Die Siedler" ("The settlers"): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Settlers

To avoid conflicts, Klaus Teuber looked for alternative names, and made a list with ten phantasy names, wich sounded like names of countries. He gave this list to his family and friends, and "Catan" was their favorite.

There are even three places with similar names:
* Catania, a city on Sicilia, Italy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catania
* González Catán, a city in Argentina: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gonz%C3%A1lez_Cat%C3%A1n
* Kataan, a fictiv planet, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lessons_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

More about this can be found in "Im Zeichen des Sechsecks" (in German): http://www.catanshop.de/im-zeichen-des-sechsecks.html

Dr. Reiner Düren
Catan GmbH
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Chris Funk
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I thought it was a modification of Canaan?
 
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Derek Whaley
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Liallan wrote:
I have never found the logic that in English it's Germany.
Germania is directly from the Latin name for the geographic region (or at least the western part): Germania. In French it is Allemagne and in Spanish it Allemania, both of which come from a local Suebic tribe, the Alemanni. Meanwhile, Deutschland itself comes from "Land of the Diutisc", the latter of which is a term that roughly just means "folk [who speak a Germanic language]". There are more names from Eastern Europe, too. Basically our modern names for the country, therefore, are just based on who the ancestral speakers of our languages interacted with the most. Romans took the name Germania with them into Britain, and so even after the Anglo-Saxons came through, the old name stuck (one of the few survivors, actually, of ancient Roman influence on Anglo-Saxon culture). In the Latin world, the Latin name fell away due to the conquests and exploits of the Carolingians, who interacted more directly with the Suebic tribes. The name Deutschland was revived by the Germans as they began their early nationalistic moves in the 18th century.
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April W
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FunkyBlue wrote:
I thought it was a modification of Canaan?

I don't think so. Maybe you're thinking that because of the Biblical variation of the game titled The Settlers of Canaan?
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Liallan G
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Whaleyland wrote:
Liallan wrote:
I have never found the logic that in English it's Germany.
Germania is directly from the Latin name for the geographic region (or at least the western part): Germania. In French it is Allemagne and in Spanish it Allemania, both of which come from a local Suebic tribe, the Alemanni. Meanwhile, Deutschland itself comes from "Land of the Diutisc", the latter of which is a term that roughly just means "folk [who speak a Germanic language]". There are more names from Eastern Europe, too. Basically our modern names for the country, therefore, are just based on who the ancestral speakers of our languages interacted with the most. Romans took the name Germania with them into Britain, and so even after the Anglo-Saxons came through, the old name stuck (one of the few survivors, actually, of ancient Roman influence on Anglo-Saxon culture). In the Latin world, the Latin name fell away due to the conquests and exploits of the Carolingians, who interacted more directly with the Suebic tribes. The name Deutschland was revived by the Germans as they began their early nationalistic moves in the 18th century.

So you're saying it's the Germans' own fault for re-naming the place.

You're taking me too literally and just explaining the etymology. And this actually is what makes people think Germania is the same as Germany.

But the real point is why there is an "English translation" (or any other language) of any country at all. Unless it's too difficult to pronounce, or a different letter character set is used, I don't get why a name has to be translated. If your name is Jacques, I'll call you Jacques. I don't need to translate it. So it was a generic statement and not just about Germany. (I didn't really expect anyone to answer it.)
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Daniel Blumentritt
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It would make a lot more sense to call cities and countries what they call themselves (with some allowance for not having a foreign accent), and spell it the same way too if it uses the same alphabet.

Although that's not always perfect, for example, what language do you spell Brussels / Bruxelles in, Dutch or French? But there are no such places as Pearl Harbour, Rome, or Germany.
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Larysa J
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Soleia wrote:
I've been so confused. I call this game Settlers of Ka-TAHN, but a lot of people I know as well as a lot of reviewers online call it Ka-TAN.

So I searched and found the answer in how Klaus and his sons pronounce it. Now I know. I'm right. I always was right. I'm right. Ignore the girl who's narrating and listen closely at 1:28. Later in the video his sons pronounce it the same way.

Now that *settles* it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niTSTcZkriA


Totally off topic, but, does anyone know what version of Catan Klaus and his son are playing? Those moulded pieces were really cute!!

L... meeple
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