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Virgin Queen» Forums » Rules

Subject: Surrender rss

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Joseph Courtight
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I am used to HIS. I've been looking at the rules of Virgin Queen and there was one rule which I noticed was missing, rules for surrender.

So I have two questions is there a surrender rule in VQ. And if there is not one how does this effect the game. It looks to me like everyone is going to stuck in endless war.

I know Spain and England cannot sign a peace. But I kind of liked the shifting alliances of HIS and short periods of peace. I felt it gave the game good flow.
 
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Jason Lindsay
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Dalek5 wrote:
I am used to HIS. I've been looking at the rules of Virgin Queen and there was one rule which I noticed was missing, rules for surrender.

So I have two questions is there a surrender rule in VQ. And if there is not one how does this effect the game. It looks to me like everyone is going to stuck in endless war.

I know Spain and England cannot sign a peace. But I kind of liked the shifting alliances of HIS and short periods of peace. I felt it gave the game good flow.


There is no rule or procedure for suing for peace. A White peace is still an option. I've played VQ about 15 times and the game flows quite well. You must use your diplomatic skills in negotiations to get the best deal.
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Kristian Thy
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Dalek5 wrote:
So I have two questions is there a surrender rule in VQ.


Page 2 of the scenario book:

"However players familiar with Here I Stand should note these very important changes to the diplomacy for Virgin Queen:
• Suing for peace is no longer possible [...]"


Dalek5 wrote:
And if there is not one how does this effect the game. It looks to me like everyone is going to stuck in endless war.


Mostly people complain about there not being enough war in VQ, since most powers have more efficient ways of gaining VP. And with generally fever turns per game than HIS, there's not much time to rebuild after losing a war in VQ anyway.
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Max DuBoff
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I'd say the biggest difference is that you have to be willing to pay for peace.
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Joseph Courtight
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Thanks guys for the overview.

I ordered this game and am very much looking forward to it.

It seems like they made the systems more interconnected than in HIS. One of my complaints was that HIS's reformation did not really affect anyone except the protestants and the Pope. And they added neat royal marriages to the system (other than the 6 wives of wild card Henry VIII).

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Frank Riskey
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There is a thriving VQ PBEM community for when you want to play. I enjoy the variability of VQ - no two game sessions have been alike.
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Pepper Page
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I like the no suing for peace in VQ. I think it is realistic. Realistically if a power doesn't want to go to peace they can't be made to.
 
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Lynn Carrington
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In VQ the Religious Conversions system is really cleaned up. That was a big upgrade over HIS.
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Kristian Thy
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lcarrington1 wrote:
In VQ the Religious Conversions system is really cleaned up. That was a big upgrade over HIS.


Well, de gustibus. I find it more complex and time-consuming.
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Jason Lindsay
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turbothy wrote:
lcarrington1 wrote:
In VQ the Religious Conversions system is really cleaned up. That was a big upgrade over HIS.


Well, de gustibus. I find it more complex and time-consuming.


Interesting. I feel the opposite. In HiS, the roll-offs between the Protestant reformation attempts and Papacy counter reformation attempts can become fairly convoluted. In VQ, it's just one set of die rolls and all that matters is space adjacency.

I suppose it is a matter of taste though. Still, both are fantastic games!
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Kristian Thy
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BraxtonBragg wrote:
In HiS, the roll-offs between the Protestant reformation attempts and Papacy counter reformation attempts can become fairly convoluted.


Eh. You just count and roll, that's it. No actual intellectual activity necessary.

(As an aside, I've always been unsympathetic to the argument that it needed simplification because the other powers were waiting on the resolution of the religious stuff. The Pope and Luther spends a lot of time waiting on the resolution of irrelevant worldly matters such as war, but nobody ever argued that should be curtailed.)

BraxtonBragg wrote:
In VQ, it's just one set of die rolls and all that matters is space adjacency.


In VQ, the die roll is just the beginning of a whole lot of umm-ing and ah-ing. "Oh, great, I rolled two major and three minor conversions. If I expand base over here, I can leapfrog to ... no, wait, I could also flip this space with the Catholic unit in it. Hmm ... what is most advantageous?"
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Jason Lindsay
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You have very valid points. I just see it a little differently.
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