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Desert Fox Deluxe» Forums » Rules

Subject: Combat - Step loses rss

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David Brown
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According to 11.5b you cross index the moral rating of each defending unit to get the result.

Therefore each unit could only take 1 or 2 step loses, and it would appear by inference (and a posting on Consimworld) that you do each unit separately - see below)

http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?7@@.1ddb8a9b/305

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Quote:
. I am still a bit flummoxed by your explanation of the combat results. Let’s say the Axis has 5 units in a stack, one of each Morale level, that is attacked and combat is resolved on Column 10. If I understand this correctly, the Axis result is this: the Morale 1 unit has an m result (retreat or make a morale check), the Morale 2 unit has a Qm (1/4 of steps eliminated, round up fractions of ½ or more, then retreat or take a Morale check), the Morale 3 unit has an Hw result (1/2 the steps eliminated, disrupt and retreat 1-3 hexes), the Morale 4 unit has an Hr result (1/2 the steps eliminated, disrupt and retreat 4-6 hexes), and the Morale 5 unit has an E result (eliminated). How is this all aggregated? Agreed this is pretty unlikely, but possible. I have broken out the effect on each unit below. Note this is a slight change from the "p" result in the original, which would have limited the total loss to one step--I never liked the calculation that required. Note also the losses would be altered if there were two or more units affected by morale lines 2, 3, and 4, since losses are calculated by total steps affected on that line.

Morale 1 unit: retreat or make a morale check. If the morale check is chosen, any roll but 6 passes, so no effect. A 6 roll would disrupt the unit.

Morale 2: if it is a 2-step unit it loses a step (1/4 of 2 is 1/2, rounding up to 1). If it is a 1-step unit is does not lose a step (1/4 of 1 is 1/4, rounding down to 0). After the loss is resolved, it is either retreated or a morale check is made. If the morale check is chosen, any roll but 6 passes, so no effect. A 6 roll would disrupt the unit.

Morale 3: it loses a step (1/2 of 1 is 1/2, rounding up to 1; 1/2 of 2 is 1). If it was a two step unit, the surviving step marked for disruption and retreated 1, 2, or 3 hexes at the discretion of the Axis player. If unable to retreat, it remains in place and suffers no loss and no further disruption (note that even though it appears to suffer no ill-effect from being unable to retreat, it is not at the choice of the Axis player).

Morale 4: it loses a step (1/2 of 1 is 1/2, rounding up to 1; 1/2 of 2 is 1). If it was a two step unit, the surviving step marked for disruption and retreated 4, 5, or 6 hexes at the discretion of the Axis player. If unable to retreat, it is eliminated.

Morale 5: the unit is eliminated.



So how does this square with 11.6 Step Loses - 'The opposing player selects the first unit to lose a step.'

According to the explanation on Consimworld, you apply to results unit by unit, not to the whole group, so there is no selection !

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Mike Haggett
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The explanation above is for the unlikely case of one of each morale class. The result for a given morale class is not applied individually to each unit, but as a whole. It is possible (as noted in the example above) for multiple results to apply if there are different morale values involved; that example would have been more useful if there had been more than a single unit involved at each morale value.

If you have 3 units comprising 6-steps, all at morale 3, and suffer an H result (3 step losses), 11.6 would apply.

Two 1-step units that have the same morale and suffer a Q result would take 1-step loss, determined by the opposing player, per 11.6.


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David Brown
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Quote:
The result for a given morale class is not applied individually to each unit, but as a whole


Can I ask, based on the rules, how have you determined that? I can find nothing that indicated yo accumulate the losses of one moral group, and then apply them to that group. The rules, although far from clear, would indicate you do it unit by unit, not moral group by moral group
 
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Mike Haggett
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Well, part of the example above includes Chris Perello's response. The last line of the 1st paragraph is illuminating:

Quote:
Note also the losses would be altered if there were two or more units affected by morale lines 2, 3, and 4, since losses are calculated by total steps affected on that line.


I.e., steps are aggregated before applying the loss results for a given morale value.

In the rules, the combat results for the defender reference "units" (on page R20). If results are applied one unit at a time, the plural need not (and should not) be used. It's possible that those are misprints, although in light of Chris P.'s quote, I'm inclined to think it is only inadequately explained in 11.5.

Between Mr. Perello's response and the wording on the CRT, I'm OK with aggregating steps with the same morale for losses.



 
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David Brown
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Quote:
Well, part of the example above includes Chris Perello's response. The last line of the 1st paragraph is illuminating:


Without the post in Consimworld, I had assumed that you accumulate all the individual losses and then apply the total number of step losses to the whole stack - which would make '11.6 Step loses' make sense.

Chris's Consimworld post, threw me and gave me the impression (wrongly)to apply losses unit by unit, therefore a one step unit suffering a 1/4 step loss would escape without a hit. and as such 11.6 wouldn't make sense

BTW, thanks for your response
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Mike Haggett
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No problem, there are certainly a number of ambiguities.
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