$20.00
Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

King of Tokyo» Forums » Variants

Subject: no player elimination rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Luke Grace
New Zealand
Auckland
Auckland
flag msg tools
When you kill a player you gain what ever points they have.
The dead player respawns out of tokyo with 10 health and 0 points.
The dead player keeps all unlocked evolutions and purchased cards.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Abdiel Xordium
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
While playing KoT without player elimination is like playing tennis without a net, if you must I recommend not awarding points for the kill. Your variant will simply encourage head hunting. If a player has 5 or 10 points killing them becomes your best option. And if you fail, you've just made it easier for the next player to do so.

The most you would want to do is penalize the dying.
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Conan Meriadoc
France
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
abdiel wrote:
Your variant will simply encourage head hunting.


It will, but the variant has merit; it pushes the game forward, since there's no loss of points when someone dies, they're just passed to someone else.

The worst idea you could have in a no-elimination game like this would be accidentally causing the game to outstay its welcome due to a gaining-then-losing-points loop.

I think the variant would mostly work, except it encourages players to stock up on energy/cards and play very defensively at the start of the game, slowing it down.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Vincent Debosse
France
La Seyne Sur Mer
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Quote:
When you kill a player you gain what ever points they have.

What if you kill yourself with a card if you feel that someone else may kill you? The points are lost forever.

In my opinion, this variant encourages hoarding energy, cards and ignoring points until you are strong enough to finish everyone else.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris G
Canada
Kitchener
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree with Vincent Debosse on this. I'd horde energy and cards and avoid going for points so I'm the least appealing target. knowing my group they'd all do the same. This would just stall the game out until everyone is fully stacked and then makes a run for it. Some may enjoy that but it doesn't sound like a step to fixing a perceived problem.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trueflight Silverwing
United States
Waverly
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The game is so short anyway that the player elimination side of things has never been an issue here. If you have someone who is too impatient to sit out 10-15 minutes or so until the next game starts, then board gaming probably isn't for them. I've played some other games where a single players turn can take that long, lol.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Diversion Architect
msg tools
mbmb
Ender02 wrote:
The game is so short anyway that the player elimination side of things has never been an issue here. If you have someone who is too impatient to sit out 10-15 minutes or so until the next game starts, then board gaming probably isn't for them. I've played some other games where a single players turn can take that long, lol.


I've had a game run 45 minutes once it got down to 2-player and then one just threw it to be done since 3 of us (eliminated) were bored. It's unlikely, but it can happen. Player elimination isn't for the OP hence the variant without it.

Instead of stealing the points, why not have the dead player keep their points and evolutions but lose all upgrades and miss one turn?

Having someone re-start at zero is just as bad as being eliminated outright. They're now playing a game they can't win. Penalize them, but let them still have a shot at winning.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cornixt
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
There are cards that will kill you while raising your VP. Forcing a player to lower their VP (maybe halve it) if they die will mitigate this issue.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next total solar eclipse holiday in 2017 in the USA.
mbmbmbmbmb
diversionArchitect wrote:
Having someone re-start at zero is just as bad as being eliminated outright. They're now playing a game they can't win.

There are two victory conditions. If you can't win by points, it now becomes your goal to kill everyone else, which consequently makes every killed and reincarnated player try to kill everyone else.

If your meta is twisted into just gathering points, that should fix it if you can't fix it by changing your strategies yourselves.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Diversion Architect
msg tools
mbmb
I've tried the "kill all players who haven't died yet" approach and it is terribly underwhelming as a conclusion. The game feels like it ended for no reason. It was unsatisfying for everyone.

The playing for VP more has the sense of playing for popularity and being a crowd favorite. So first to 20 means Tokyo adopts you as their beloved monster or something.

I could see a 5 point drop in VP on death, as a penalty. More than that and it's the same issue of playing a game you can't win.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pasi Ojala
Finland
Tampere
flag msg tools
Get the Imperial Assault Campaign module for Vassal from http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Module:Star_Wars:_Imperial_Assault
badge
The next total solar eclipse holiday in 2017 in the USA.
mbmbmbmbmb
If collecting VP is the only way to win, attacking is completely unnecessary unless the attacker benefits from it directly.

I have a novel idea how to handle "no player elimination". devil

Whenever you would deal damage to a monster, instead of that monster suffering the damage, you gain 1 VP. That way no player is ever eliminated from the game, and claws are beneficial instead of a hindrance to collecting VP's.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Diversion Architect
msg tools
mbmb
That's not a bad idea. Do players have no benefit for killing monsters?

Then I'd try:

+3 VP per KO caused
-5 VP, discard upgrades and lose a turn whenever KO'd
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charles Fox
United States
Wichita
Kansas
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
On a lot of our games, if you take the players VP, well they are actually eliminated, but they are mathematically eliminated cause there is no way for them to caught up.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cornixt
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
How about using deaths to speed up the end game? For each player you kill, you can change one die roll to a claw per turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Sampson
United States
Ann Arbor
Michigan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
There is already a no player elimination, points only variant. It's called Yahtzee.

It sounds like a joke, but the problem is, you need incentive to attack other players. However, if you award points for a kill, you are incentivize ganging up on players and give too much advantage for getting lucky and killing. You could penalize death, but really that creates a new problem where there isn't enough incentive to actually kill a player. Because it takes effort and turns, the only time everyone would realistically work to kill someone is when they are far ahead. That might sound good in theory, but if everyone is constantly trying to kill off a runaway leader, the game will drag on forever. In the end you are probably better off mostly focusing on a purely points-based strategy. At that point you are pretty much back to points-race yahtzee, but with monster standees.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Diversion Architect
msg tools
mbmb
Ahh, I forgot the other variant we always run with-

We do not include parasitic tentacles, and allow players to use buy an upgrade off of another player whenever you roll 3 claws against them.

That's the big incentive for attacking in our games: taking their stuff.

We really liked the whole "rolling a set of 3" thing and hated parasitic tentancles, so that ended up being a great fix for us.


Our full variants would be:
Quote:
3xCLAWS = can buy an upgrade off an enemy (+1 buy per extra claw)
3xENERGY = add another card to purchase pool (+1 card per extra energy)
3xHEART = draw one evolution card and keep it (draw +1 card per extra heart, but still only keep 1)

KO a monster = Drain *up to 3* VP from KO'd monster
When KO'd = Miss 1 turn, reset health and discard all upgrades

Play to 20 VP

We end up with a huge purchase pool which when wiped goes back to 3 cards. We have varied how much VP gets drained, but we definitely didn't like the "last man still standing while everyone else gets back up" thing. It wasn't satisfying. So sticking with play to 20 VP felt best.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.