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Legendary: Civil War» Forums » General

Subject: Airing Grievances rss

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Jacob Stick
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So I have to get this off of my chest, I don't love the new set. There I said it. Every set before this one I have really enjoyed for what it is, but this one I have not had as much fun as I have had with previous versions. Now I am a huge Marvel fan and this is my favorite game. I have been with it since it first released 2012 and every expansion has excited me and I couldn't wait to see what was inside, this one though did not even give me that same excited anticipation. There are several things about it I would like to talk about and if you don't want to hear someone's "complaining" then no need to read on...

There are a few things that did not excite me and the first being the one that I think is the biggest, it is too much like Villains. I did not like the Villains "Expansions". I will never buy the Villains Expansion. I don't want to play as Villains. I am not a huge fan of Heroes versus Heroes or playing as a villain in the card game. It is just not something that I like. If you like it, good on ya mate. It is cool to like, I just don't care for that aspect of the game.

The next one I saw coming and that the Divided cards. I don't care for how they look and mechanically they add too much weight to the game. The keywords and special abilities overload is strong and it got real heavy at about Captain America for me. Every new set has to have something different and never really expands on older mechanics. It just throws a new mechanic into the pile and the weight just keeps piling up. I knew the cards were going to look weird and it was as I thought, it is difficult to look at them when you are holding them as a regular card. So I don't like them.

Also, not enough KO cards among the heroes. For an event touted as a Civil War there is not a whole lot of ways to get rid of your base hand and the methods that are available are not easy. Reveal the top card of your deck and if it is a card you want to KO do so is so subjective. I can't get awesome combos if I can't get rid of my weak cards.

Minor complaint is the Sidekicks, while I like the concept, overall I like the old Sidekicks a little better. The sidekicks as they were one of the best additions to the game as a whole. Also are we going to add new things to every aspect and turn it face down. It started with the Bystanders and now has moved to the Sidekicks and the Wounds. One thing left face up currently are SHIELD Officers.

Overall I still love Legendary and I hope it continues for years to come, but I am starting to feel the bloat and I was just not impress with it. I kinda wish I made a pass on this set, though I couldn't because there are still things that I like.

I like the new Spider-Man. I like the idea of the new Sidekicks and that Wounds. I like the Baron Helmut Zemo Mastermind. I like Luke Cage and other heroes that I have been waiting for.

In conclusion, I hate Villains.
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Stephen Puderbaugh
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You have successfully articulated many of my thoughts about Civil War and Legendary in general.

MasterGM wrote:
Every new set has to have something different and never really expands on older mechanics. It just throws a new mechanic into the pile and the weight just keeps piling up.


This is my biggest complaint and a major reason I have grown to love customs so much. I especially like customs that take an existing mechanic and put a new spin on it. The Purple Man mastermind comes to mind, but there are many others.


MasterGM wrote:
Overall I still love Legendary and I hope it continues for years to come, but I am starting to feel the bloat and I was just not impress with it. I kinda wish I made a pass on this set, though I couldn't because there are still things that I like.


Like you, Legendary is still my favorite game, but it is becoming more and more cumbersome. Upping the difficulty is generally fine, but keep the complexity down.

EDIT: Oh yeah, one other big thing I don't like about Civil War is the way it is advertised.
Quote:
The game will feature playable characters from both sides of the Super Hero Registration act. Will you choose to side with Captain America or Iron Man?

Unless you have customs or play as the mastermind (which was included in Secret Wars), I don't see how you can side with Iron Man.
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Adelin Dumitru
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Both Henchmen groups allow you to KO cards. You'll also have less incentives to KO starting hands due to the presence of SHIELD Clearance (which is a game-changer as far as I'm concerned).

You are perfectly right about the Sidekicks, but as it has been emphasized here by other users, this was the point of introducing Special Sidekicks - balancing an overpowered Sidekick stack.

I cannot comment on the other points, as it would be my subjective assessment vs your subjective assessment.
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Jacob Stick
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
Both Henchmen groups allow you to KO cards. You'll also have less incentives to KO starting hands due to the presence of SHIELD Clearance (which is a game-changer as far as I'm concerned).


While it is fair to say, but that is henchmen. My complaint is about the heroes not having enough KO power to clean a deck. Even with the henchmen it is not enough. Not enough henchmen to go around. Shield clearance hasn't been too much of a problem. But the heroes have difficulty KOing cards and that makes for poor deck engines.
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Justin H

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AdelinDumitru wrote:
Both Henchmen groups allow you to KO cards. You'll also have less incentives to KO starting hands due to the presence of SHIELD Clearance (which is a game-changer as far as I'm concerned).

You are perfectly right about the Sidekicks, but as it has been emphasized here by other users, this was the point of introducing Special Sidekicks - balancing an overpowered Sidekick stack.

I cannot comment on the other points, as it would be my subjective assessment vs your subjective assessment.


SHIELD Clearance might be my biggest problem with this set. I wish UD asked me about it first. This is what that conversation would of been like:

UD: "Hey! How would you like a new keyword that utilizes mechanisms that stuff your deck full of Maria Hill cards."

Me: "No thanks. I just leave Maria Hill in the box."

UD: "We understand that getting a shield officer is a terrible idea like 98% of time, but what if you were forced to do it?

ME: "No thanks, that sounds even worse."

UD: "Fine, at least you'll enjoy the Pet Avengers."

Me: "Kind of..."
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Josh Worley
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jhochges wrote:
AdelinDumitru wrote:
Both Henchmen groups allow you to KO cards. You'll also have less incentives to KO starting hands due to the presence of SHIELD Clearance (which is a game-changer as far as I'm concerned).

You are perfectly right about the Sidekicks, but as it has been emphasized here by other users, this was the point of introducing Special Sidekicks - balancing an overpowered Sidekick stack.

I cannot comment on the other points, as it would be my subjective assessment vs your subjective assessment.


SHIELD Clearance might be my biggest problem with this set. I wish UD asked me about it first. This is what that conversation would of been like:

UD: "Hey! How would you like a new keyword that utilizes mechanisms that stuff your deck full of Maria Hill cards."

Me: "No thanks. I just leave Maria Hill in the box."

UD: "We understand that getting a shield officer is a terrible idea like 98% of time, but what if you were forced to do it?

ME: "No thanks, that sounds even worse."

UD: "Fine, at least you'll enjoy the Pet Avengers."

Me: "Kind of..."


SHIELD Clearance has nothing to do with Maria Hill cards, other than the fact that they're also SHIELD Hero cards.

You can still leave them in the box, unless you are fighting against the Maria Hill mastermind (or her always leads villain group). Just discard some of your starting cards or play with other SHIELD affiliated Heroes. After SWV2 and Cap75, we actually have enough of them for a full game (if you are playing Advanced Solo).
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Justin H

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I guess let me clarify. I know exactly what Shield Clearance is, and how it works. Most of the cards associated with shield clearance have mechanisms that require you to gain Shield Officers. This is annoying.
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Darth Ed
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MasterGM wrote:
There are a few things that did not excite me and the first being the one that I think is the biggest, it is too much like Villains. I did not like the Villains "Expansions". I will never buy the Villains Expansion. I don't want to play as Villains. I am not a huge fan of Heroes versus Heroes or playing as a villain in the card game. It is just not something that I like. If you like it, good on ya mate. It is cool to like, I just don't care for that aspect of the game.

100% this. Thank you for saying it.

MasterGM wrote:
The next one I saw coming and that the Divided cards.

My only complaint with the Divided cards is that the card text is too small for me to read in many cases.

MasterGM wrote:
Also, not enough KO cards among the heroes.

That's probably intentional because of SHIELD Clearance being a thing, but I can endorse this complaint.

MasterGM wrote:
Minor complaint is the Sidekicks, while I like the concept, overall I like the old Sidekicks a little better.

I agree that the original Sidekicks card effect is better than almost all of the Pet Sidekicks.

MasterGM wrote:
In conclusion, I hate Villains.

Ditto.
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Atnier Rodriguez
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I haven't played the Civil War expansion yet, but I think the Deadpool one is the first one I'm going to intentionally skip.

Bully for those who like the party stuff, but I prefer the mixing of solid mechanics.
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Adelin Dumitru
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From the looks of it, Deadpool is going to be both fun and mechanically solid. Those 2 are not mutually exclusive.
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Atnier Rodriguez
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AdelinDumitru wrote:
From the looks of it, Deadpool is going to be both fun and mechanically solid. Those 2 are not mutually exclusive.


I know they are not, but there'll be cards within their sets that will be non-serious, like Unglued MTG.

I don't know, it just ain't my style.
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Ovi Matteo
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I just came here to say that I like the fact that we are turning various decks face-down. I enjoy not knowing what I am about to draw. Yes, it might be frustrating sometimes, but I do not always need to win.
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Jacob Stick
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Ovidutz wrote:
I just came here to say that I like the fact that we are turning various decks face-down. I enjoy not knowing what I am about to draw. Yes, it might be frustrating sometimes, but I do not always need to win.


Yeah that was more of a joke.i done care that it is happening, just kind of find it funny.
 
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David M. Cabal Inés
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MasterGM wrote:
There are a few things that did not excite me and the first being the one that I think is the biggest, it is too much like Villains. I did not like the Villains "Expansions". I will never buy the Villains Expansion. I don't want to play as Villains. I am not a huge fan of Heroes versus Heroes or playing as a villain in the card game. It is just not something that I like. If you like it, good on ya mate. It is cool to like, I just don't care for that aspect of the game.

I like the villains expansion and the classic hero vs hero and I feel a little sad with they abandoning villains line and the weird mix in Secret Wars. I'm understanding your point, I don't know how you feel about Secret Wars... I probably felt about it like you feel about Civil War, I really enjoyed it and it was a great surprise because I didn't liked the divided cards before played them, they help to give decks a lot of flexibility... I understand the problem about the look.

I'm a great fan of Marvel villains and I hope they launch another expansion because we missed a lot some of them (e.g. Blob and Toad in the Brotherhood).

MasterGM wrote:

The next one I saw coming and that the Divided cards. I don't care for how they look and mechanically they add too much weight to the game. The keywords and special abilities overload is strong and it got real heavy at about Captain America for me. Every new set has to have something different and never really expands on older mechanics. It just throws a new mechanic into the pile and the weight just keeps piling up. I knew the cards were going to look weird and it was as I thought, it is difficult to look at them when you are holding them as a regular card. So I don't like them.

I like the new Cap, and it feels as I think that the Cap must really feel with the sidekicks and Avengers mechanics, and I think it didn't change most from what it was defined in the base game (after you played sidekicks and avengers come back for next hand).

But I feel like you I think they didn't exploit older mechanics and some times characters feel weird because they use too much new mechanics and probably would work better with older ones.

I didn't have any problem with divided cards but I played the easy and simple ones: Herc and Tigra and I usually oriented them use in one part using the other only when things go wrong or the other part is most needed to doing a combo.

I really like to have more characters and no different versions of the characters I owned. They must think hard if this Magneto is a real Magneto or is just a stupid excuse to use 2 o 3 new mechanic in the expansion.

MasterGM wrote:

Also, not enough KO cards among the heroes. For an event touted as a Civil War there is not a whole lot of ways to get rid of your base hand and the methods that are available are not easy. Reveal the top card of your deck and if it is a card you want to KO do so is so subjective. I can't get awesome combos if I can't get rid of my weak cards.

I think we are used to too much powerful heroes (as the Guardians of the Galaxy) that easily KO the starter deck... And in this expansion they come back to basics doing that henchmen and villains KO heroes as it happens in the base game. I like it, because I have more option to play themed games and don't depend on Sentinels, Doom Bots or Master of Evils to help the game flows.

I just learned that with mechanics near to the ones to villains (dodge) having some cards in your deck that you don't want/mind (starter or wounds) would be useful to start or power some combos.

Most of the expansion are options to mix with previous cards. I usually only play an expansion alone to learn new mechanics and cards but they really show it potential joining old cards. Now we have a lot of different Avengers teams with different strategies.

I don't understand why there is only a New Warrior, why do they create a new team and only give us one hero?

MasterGM wrote:

Minor complaint is the Sidekicks, while I like the concept, overall I like the old Sidekicks a little better. The sidekicks as they were one of the best additions to the game as a whole. Also are we going to add new things to every aspect and turn it face down. It started with the Bystanders and now has moved to the Sidekicks and the Wounds. One thing left face up currently are SHIELD Officers.

I think sidekick were so much powerful, when we play we usually prefer to get sidekicks and recruits instead a hero that didn't fit the deck strategy. I understand the put to the pets and the wounds to make the game harder and can be included or not in some games. I only miss a card to put on top to recognize each deck and how much they cost to recruit when playing with newbie players.

I was thinking in play face up and you know what you are going to get next.

And about shield officers I think they must launch the MCU SHIELD agents/officers (I have them custom). It would be interesting to mix Viper with Maria Hall.

MasterGM wrote:

Overall I still love Legendary and I hope it continues for years to come, but I am starting to feel the bloat and I was just not impress with it. I kinda wish I made a pass on this set, though I couldn't because there are still things that I like.


I think that the problem is the themed expansion and to invest too much in the new mechanics. Each set are new possibilities.

I think we must start thinking and buying as costumers instead as collectors... I will do as okami31 and skip Deadpool. If we don't like something we can vote against it didn't buying it (as I think you did with villains).

MasterGM wrote:

I like the new Spider-Man. I like the idea of the new Sidekicks and that Wounds. I like the Baron Helmut Zemo Mastermind. I like Luke Cage and other heroes that I have been waiting for.

That's the worse part, for some heroes and villains you like you have to "eat" some you didn't like

MasterGM wrote:

In conclusion, I hate Villains.

I just have one question: Do you play mainly coop or competitive?
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Jacob Stick
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Thanks for the thoughtful response to my post.

To answer your question though, it depends who I'm with but mainly cooperative. I like it that way. It is more fun to me and I like playing heroes not villains.
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Adelin Dumitru
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The odd thing is that, given Marvel's complex characters, it is difficult to say who is villain and who is hero. Depending on the story, many of the heroes in Legendary have done terrible things. In opposition, many of the villains are not that villainous.

Sabretooth, Magneto, Mystique - X-men at times or working closely with the X-Men

Green Goblin - not all evil

Octopus - bad guy, but he's done his fair share of heroic deeds

Venom - more like an anti-hero
Same goes for Bullseye.

Ultron - AI, so it is not really fair to put the blame on him for his actions.

Arguably, Kraven and Kingpin are the only "pure" evil characters in the Villains set.
 
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Jacob Stick
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Sure you have your antiheroes and your antivillains but I played villains. Didn't have fun playing it. So saying that villains are not always villains doesn't change my mind.
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David A
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That argument about "Well, who's really a villain, etc. etc." comes up every time someone says they don't like to play villains.

All of those that get listed might occasionally be on the side of the angels, but they are traditionally and popularly associated as being bad guys.

Some of us don't like playing the bad guys, pure and simple. It's ok! We don't need the speech every time we mention it. Some people love to play the bad guys and that's ok too....it's just not for everyone.
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Dan C
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It might be that many people's connection to the Marvel heroes/villains are through the MCU movies, and there is a lot less ambiguity in those movies than the comics?
 
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Justin H

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I'm still waiting for the "feats of strength" topic...
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