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Subject: Adding new Event cards rss

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David desJardins
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One thing we weren't sure about that does affect the game---when a new Event card enters the game, do the players get to see the card before it's shuffled into the event deck?

We have been playing that we don't, which means that the new cards come up as a surprise. But some of the events are things that one might keep in mind and could influence your play if you know they are possibilities.

Event Cards
The game starts with 10 event cards, 6 that are revealed and 4 that are each in their own sealed bag. Bagged event cards live in the storage chest until a milestone activates them. When this happens, find the event card in the storage chest, remove it from its bag, and add the card to the event draw pile. More event cards, both bagged and revealed, will enter the game. When discovered, new revealed event cards are immediately shuffled into the event deck. New bagged event cards go into the storage chest until their milestone is completed.


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Keith Pishnery
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Interesting question. I think it's possible the word "revealed" might be the answer. If you are instructed to open that bagged card, you are revealing it, so now it's just like the other revealed cards. Obviously just my own interpretation, though.
 
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Matt S
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We have been playing where the title gets read, but the text of the card doesn't. I can see where both interpretation can come from to read or not to read.

I think it has been fun to not know before hand what the cards say as you then have to adapt to them.

 
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Thomas Robb
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I agree with Keith

Revealed seems to imply open to the public view

Just my interpretation as well

(I also think that there are plenty of surprises in the game already)

I really do not see a problem with shuffling it in and have it be a surprise though . . . players have to deal with other surprises in the game . . . and in the real world, we do not know what events may come our way

whistle
 
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David desJardins
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thomasrobb wrote:
Revealed seems to imply open to the public view


To be clear, though, the quoted text never uses the word "reveal" or "revealed" in reference to the bagged event cards. The text just says to open the bag and shuffle those cards into the event deck. It doesn't say to reveal them.
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Keith Pishnery
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As I reasoned above, I think the act of opening the bag is revealing the card. I honestly think both interpretations are fine and I like how your way saves the surprise. Hopefully Rob or JR will chime in.
 
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Becq Starforged
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My interpretation was the same as Keith's, but I can see how the rules aren't entirely clear on this.

If you opt to reveal it at unbagging, then you could view this as rumors spreading about the potential for that event. If you keep it secret, then the first victim(s) and only the first victim(s) are penalized without the opportunity to prepare. But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think that one-shot surprise (or lack thereof) will make a huge difference on the campaign, and everyone will know about the event afterward anyway.

 
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Becq Starforged
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DaviddesJ wrote:
thomasrobb wrote:
Revealed seems to imply open to the public view


To be clear, though, the quoted text never uses the word "reveal" or "revealed" in reference to the bagged event cards. The text just says to open the bag and shuffle those cards into the event deck. It doesn't say to reveal them.


Doesn't it say that here?

"When discovered, new revealed event cards are immediately shuffled into the event deck"
 
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David desJardins
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Becq wrote:
Doesn't it say that here?

"When discovered, new revealed event cards are immediately shuffled into the event deck"


No. It says there are two kinds of Event cards that you can discover: bagged cards and revealed cards. When you discover a revealed card, you immediately shuffle it into the event deck. When you discover a bagged card, you set it aside until a specified trigger occurs; then you open the bag and shuffle it into the event deck. But it doesn't say that when you open the bag you reveal the card.
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David desJardins
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Becq wrote:
But in the grand scheme of things, I don't think that one-shot surprise (or lack thereof) will make a huge difference on the campaign, and everyone will know about the event afterward anyway.


You haven't seen any of these cards, right? How can you possibly form an opinion on how much impact they will have?
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Aaron Welsher
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The starting event deck cards are not secret from players, so I don't see a reason why future ones would be once revealed, either. It seems like there is a decent chance the person opening the card would see it anyway, even by accident, so why hide it from everyone else?

Seems like a relatively harmless house rule either way, though, as long as all players are on the same footing.
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David desJardins
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spookybarn wrote:
It seems like there is a decent chance the person opening the card would see it anyway, even by accident, so why hide it from everyone else?


You can see from outside the bag which side is the front of the card and which is the back. So there's no risk of seeing the front of the card when opening the bag if you don't want to.
 
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j n
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DaviddesJ wrote:
spookybarn wrote:
It seems like there is a decent chance the person opening the card would see it anyway, even by accident, so why hide it from everyone else?


You can see from outside the bag which side is the front of the card and which is the back. So there's no risk of seeing the front of the card when opening the bag if you don't want to.


Eh. There's always the risk that the card falls out in a weird way or someone fumbles a shuffle. My completely blind opinion is that it's okay to reveal the event once it's open. If it was important anything a secret after it's opened, I would expect the rules to say so.
 
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David desJardins
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lactamaeon wrote:
If it was important anything a secret after it's opened, I would expect the rules to say so.


Eventually there are other decks in the game, for example the research deck (this is mentioned in the base rules, so hardly a spoiler). The rules don't explicitly say that you can't look through all of the cards in the research deck whenever you want, but I'm pretty sure that's the intent, for a variety of reasons. I think the inference that you can look at anything that comes into play unless there's a very specific statement that you can't is unlikely to be what the designer was thinking.
 
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Frank Pelkofer
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I'm with Aaron and Keith. Once the card enters the game, it seems like what it says should be common knowledge. I think that's consistent with what the rules say. We aren't hiding any of the other cards to surprise people during the prologue. I agree it's not completely clear.
 
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David desJardins
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I guess the question is more general than I originally asked. There are other cards that come into play later that I'm quite sure that the contents should not be public. The suggestion by some people that everything should be open doesn't seem right to me, but if there are people who feel strongly that way then it's more important that it be clarified than I thought. We could start with the research deck.
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Matt S
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Here is my opinion on this.

When new cards get added in the middle of the game, to me it bogs things down to read every card to everyone. So we just add them to the appropriate deck and keep going. However if content is unlocked at the end of a game then that is a good time to see these cards. I think that is fine and knowledge that all players should have, we tend to do just a quick glance at them. Remember that part of the fun of this game is the discovery, and if you read every card right when you open it the magic of that discovery is lost.

At the end of the day if you and your group like to read everything first and are still having fun, awesome keep it up. If you are like my group we like the unknown element, and we have fun so we will just add the cards without reading them first. The most important thing is that everyone in the group is on the same page.
 
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David desJardins
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mcs1213 wrote:
However if content is unlocked at the end of a game then that is a good time to see these cards. I think that is fine and knowledge that all players should have, we tend to do just a quick glance at them.


So, like, when the research cards become available, you let the players all look through the whole deck to see what's in it, before starting the next game?

That would be a BIG change from how our group has played. Much bigger change than whether or not you look at the new event cards.
 
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Matt S
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DaviddesJ wrote:
mcs1213 wrote:
However if content is unlocked at the end of a game then that is a good time to see these cards. I think that is fine and knowledge that all players should have, we tend to do just a quick glance at them.


So, like, when the research cards become available, you let the players all look through the whole deck to see what's in it, before starting the next game?

That would be a BIG change from how our group has played. Much bigger change than whether or not you look at the new event cards.


Technically, that is what I am saying, but not really my intention.

I would advise against reading every card of the research deck for a couple of reasons. One the amount of time that will take. Two it ruins the discovery of said deck. Three this would not be a study session, but more of a get a general idea of whats there. As any kept research card is placed face up in your treasure room they are public knowledge anyway.

I will say it again, my group isn't doing it this way and we most likely won't as we like the surprise. However if another group agrees that doing this makes the game more enjoyable for them, good for that group. I will not stop them.
 
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David desJardins
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mcs1213 wrote:
As any kept research card is placed face up in your treasure room they are public knowledge anyway.


But only after they are drawn. Knowing what's in that deck before they were drawn would make a big difference (at least IMHO).

Quote:
I will say it again, my group isn't doing it this way


OK, I misunderstood when you wrote "knowledge that all players should have."
 
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j n
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DaviddesJ wrote:
lactamaeon wrote:
If it was important anything a secret after it's opened, I would expect the rules to say so.


Eventually there are other decks in the game, for example the research deck (this is mentioned in the base rules, so hardly a spoiler). The rules don't explicitly say that you can't look through all of the cards in the research deck whenever you want, but I'm pretty sure that's the intent, for a variety of reasons. I think the inference that you can look at anything that comes into play unless there's a very specific statement that you can't is unlikely to be what the designer was thinking.


I guess I will rephrase that I think the designer should specify in the rules/somewhere in the chest if these things are intended to remain hidden until drawn. The default status of a game is that players are allowed to know what the components do, and Legacy games should be (and in my experience with P:L, were) clear about any components this does not apply to.

I don't often read every card in a game before I play for the first time, though, which does give me a bit of pause. In the case of a Legacy game the stakes are higher, so each group should probably decide together whether they are going to play open or closed. (I am operating under the assumption here that full knowledge will not have a significant benefit to one faction/player over the others, but honestly even if it does I say just play according to the group's preference.)

(I don't think you can look through them all "whenever you want" - once they're shuffled you should leave them alone, only the face-up decks are allowed to be looked through during play.)
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Clinton Rice
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I think whichever interpretation you use shouldn't impact the game as long as you keep knowledge even between players. Either all players should know what the card says or none should. When I played the prologue, we didn't even bother to read the starting six, though I expect many groups would. I don't feel our play experience was better or worse for it.
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JR Honeycutt
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I don't believe this is addressed in the rulebook. It's player preference. In our group we're purposely not looking at them (and I don't remember what most of them are, which is nice!) so that we can be surprised the first time they happen - which may be after many games, depending on deck randomness!

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Jeff Jackson
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OK, one time Randy Beaman had to take baths with his brother. So one time his little brother took a potty in the bathtub .....and now Randy Beaman gets to take showers alone. 'K, bye.
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One time, OK, see, one time Randy Beaman's little brother ate Pop Rocks and drank a soda at the same time and his head exploded! 'K, bye.
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jayahre wrote:
I don't believe this is addressed in the rulebook. It's player preference. In our group we're purposely not looking at them (and I don't remember what most of them are, which is nice!) so that we can be surprised the first time they happen - which may be after many games, depending on deck randomness!



Us too. We've finished Game 3 and all new cards (advisors, events, dangerous waters, etc.) have been shuffled in blind. But this was a group decision. I can see why other groups would prefer to read all cards prior to playing. Don't think there's a right or wrong, simply a preference (shrug).
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Jerry Alan Sayers
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jayahre wrote:
It's player preference.


We plan to shuffle them in blind, just as we did with events and missions in Risk Legacy. It allows for more surprises (and as mentioned above also cuts down on analysis paralysis).
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