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Subject: Custom Hero - The Alluring Siren rss

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Joseph Guzman
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Oregon
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*The Run Down
Siren is inspired by the likes of Black Bolt and Black Canary along with the Sirens of Greek Mythology. With the voice as both a weapon and a tool, it seemed natural to make a hero who's voice can do so much. As a support hero, she focuses on helping other heroes recuperate and to stay in the fight as well as relevant to the fight. Ideally she is supposed to be a powerful support hero with a big toolbox of support capability with decent damage potential.

*Bio
Karen Thatcher loved the theater. At 22yrs old, she was the youngest performer at the theater. With a remarkable voice, a quick study for script, she was a natural. The problem was, she always felt like she didn't move audiences the way a great performer should. After a performance one night, she was given a strange jewel by an adoring fan who seemed all too eager to be rid of it. Not being one to reject her fans, she took the jewel. As she sat in her dressing room, looking into her mirror, she sighed. She quietly wished that her words could hold real power, the power she needed to really get people fully into her performances. The jewel pulsed next to her and smoked seeped from it, quickly forming a person. This person smiled as he looked at Karen and asked her if she really meant that wish. Scared, but strangely emboldened by his question, she uttered yes. "Then it is done" he said. With his eerie smile, he vanished back into his crystal. Karen, thrown off by what had happened, sat in her room, struck with awe. A knock came at her door and the manager told her the next show starts in 10 minutes and then left. It was show time.

Karen took the stage and as she began to sing her first song, she felt the hair on her arms raise as power seemed to emanate from her, enrapturing the crowd. She watched as the crowd hung onto her every word. As the play went on, she watched how her words were affecting the crowd, sad songs would depress them, and angry songs would rile them up. At the end of the play, she watched the crowd leave and felt her deepest wishes had come true. As a fellow actor came up to her, she realized the crowd was not the only one affected as the troupe were in various affects of her songs, angry, sad, happy, love stricken. Her songs affected people more than she wished they would. Running to her dressing room, she found the jewel was gone and carved into her dressing table were the words "Careful What You Wish For." She was upset and cried as she now had not wanted to control people with her voice and knew it could have gotten worse had she sung something that could have invoked violence or depression. A knock came at her door and a young man walked in. He smiled at her. "Don't you cry young lady. That voice of yours can be put to much good. How would you like to be apart of something greater?"

Hero: Siren
HP: 24
Base Power: Motivate
-Reveal the top card of a hero deck, play it or that player draws the card.
Incapacitated
-A player may draw a card
-Increase the damage of target hero's next attack by 1
-A hero can use a power now

Ongoing, Song (Qty:15)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Soothing Serenade (Qty:4)
-When played, a Hero regains 3 HP
-Echo: Each hero target regains 1 HP

Aria of the Muse (Qty:3)
-When played, a player draws 2 cards
-Echo: Each player draws 1 card

Hero's Ballad (Qty:3)
-When played, one hero may use a power now
-Echo: Increase the next damage done by a hero by 2.

Dirge of the Lost (Qty:3)
-When played, A player may take one card from their trash and put it into their hand.
-Echo: A player may play a card now.

Enchanting Melody (Qty:2)
-When played, Villain cards cannot be played until your next turn. Siren deals herself 2 psychic damage.
-Echo: Villain targets each deal 1 melee damage to the Villain character.


Ongoing, Song, Limited (Qty:2)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Emboldening Sonata (Qty:2)
-Power: Another hero may use a power that deals damage now. Increase damage dealt by that power by 2.
-Echo: Siren deals a target 2 sonic damage


Ongoing, Limited (Qty:6)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inspiration (Qty:2)
-The first time a Song card is played each turn, you may draw a card.

Duet (Qty:2)
-When you play a song, if you have another of that song in play already, you may activate the echo effect of both cards, then destroy them.

Encore (Qty:2)
-At the beginning of your turn, if there are 3 or more song cards in the trash, you may take 1 song card from your trash and shuffle it into your deck.


One-Shot (Qty:17)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Words of Power (Qty:4)
-Search your deck for a song card and put it into your hand.
-Shuffle your deck
-Search your trash for a song card and put it into your hand.

Finale (Qty:2)
-Activate the echo effect of any number of songs, then destroy any that were activated. Siren deals a target X sonic damage, where X is the number of songs destroyed this way.

Painful Crescendo (Qty:3)
-Siren deals 1 target 2 irreducible sonic damage. You may play a song.

Piercing Pitch (Qty:2)
-Deal 2 sonic damage to each non-hero target. You may play a song.

Flow of Music (Qty:3)
-Activate the echo effect of a song, then destroy it. You may play a song.

Synchronize (Qty:3)
-Choose 2 song cards in play, activate the echo effect of each, then destroy both. Draw 2 cards.



Any suggestions and recommendations would be most appreciated. This is the fourth hero of the series I am creating. My artist is pretty busy so no art yet. Always looking for a new artist if anyone is interested.

(Edit Notes)
-Removed Hymn for the Fallen
-Removed Music Journal
-Changed Text of Sandman's Lullaby to be more clear and less powerful.
-Took away keyword Song from Finale.
-Took away keyword Song from Painful Crescendo
-Reworked Emboldening Sonata
-Added Piercing Scream
-Changed wording on The Run down for description
-Fixed Encores text
-Added a new ability to words of Power to strengthen its usefulness
-Added Curse of the Siren card
-Fixed wording on Incapacitated powers
-Added Limited to Emboldening Sonata and changed ability for balancing and potential.
-Adjusted Curse of the Siren to be more useable with a balancer on it. Also moved from to a normal ongoing due to balance change.
-Adjusted Inspiration to once a turn for balancing.
-Adjusted Base Power
-Reduce Dirge of the Lost to a single player instead of all players.
-Increased damage on Piercing Scream by 1. Wording Fix.
-Increased Psychic damage of Curse of the Siren
-Increased Curse of the Siren qty by 1.
-Switched Song cards from One-Shots to Ongoing as to Rosgaths suggestion.
-Altered Encore's effect to accommodate new song type.
-Made Sandman's Lullaby useful and balanced with using Legacy's Takedown card as a reference.
-Adjusted damage to Painful Crescendo to balance with Piercing Scream.
-Implementing the suggestions of Adelphophage for the deck to make it more unique and synergetic.
-Changed Enchanting Melody to have Sandman's Lullabys ability and removed Sandman's Lullaby.
-Changed the name of Whisper of the Muse to Aria of the Muse to keep with musical theme of song cards.
-Removed Curse of the Siren for room in deck and flow of mechanic.
-Changed last part of the ability of Flow of Music
-Added ability to Piercing Pitch and Painful Crescendo
 
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Christopher Webb
United States
Utah
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Re: Custom Hero - Siren
Jaggid88 wrote:
*The Run Down
Siren is inspired by the likes of Black Bolt and Black Canary along with the Sirens of Greek Mythology. With the voice as both a weapon and a tool, it seemed natural to make a hero who's voice can do so much. As a support hero, she focuses on helping other heroes recuperate and to stay in the fight as well as relevant to the fight. Ideally she is supposed to be a powerful support hero with a big toolbox of support capability with little damage.

*Bio
Karen Thatcher loved the theater. At 22yrs old, she was the youngest performer at the theater. With a remarkable voice, a quick study for script, she was a natural. The problem was, she always felt like she didn't move audiences the way a great performer should. After a performance one night, she was given a strange jewel by an adoring fan who seemed all too eager to be rid of it. Not being one to reject her fans, she took the jewel. As she sat in her dressing room, looking into her mirror, she sighed. She quietly wished that her words could hold real power, the power she needed to really get people fully into her performances. The jewel pulsed next to her and smoked seeped from it, quickly forming a person. This person smiled as he looked at Karen and asked her if she really meant that wish. Scared, but strangely emboldened by his question, she uttered yes. "Then it is done" he said. With his eerie smile, he vanished back into his crystal. Karen, thrown off by what had happened, sat in her room, struck with awe. A knock came at her door and the manager told her the next show starts in 10 minutes and then left. It was show time.

Karen took the stage and as she began to sing her first song, she felt the hair on her arms raise as power seemed to emanate from her, enrapturing the crowd. She watched as the crowd hung onto her every word. As the play went on, she watched how her words were affecting the crowd, sad songs would depress them, and angry songs would rile them up. At the end of the play, she watched the crowd leave and felt her deepest wishes had come true. As a fellow actor came up to her, she realized the crowd was not the only one affected as the troupe were in various affects of her songs, angry, sad, happy, love stricken. Her songs affected people more than she wished they would. Running to her dressing room, she found the jewel was gone and carved into her dressing table were the words "Careful What You Wish For." She was upset and cried as she now had not wanted to control people with her voice and knew it could have gotten worse had she sung something that could have invoked violence or depression. A knock came at her door and a young man walked in. He smiled at her. "Don't you cry young lady. That voice of yours can be put to much good. How would you like to be apart of something greater?"

Hero: Siren
HP: 24
Base Power: Motivate
-Reveal the top card of a deck, play it or return it to the top of the deck.

Incapacitated
-Target player draws a card
-Increase the damage of target hero's next attack by 1
-Target hero can use a power now

One-Shot, Song (Qty:27)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Soothing Serenade (Qty:4)
-All hero targets gain 1 HP

Painful Crescendo (Qty:4)
-Siren deals 1 non-hero target 2 sonic damage

Whisper of the Muse (Qty:3)
-Each player draws 1 card

Hero's Ballad (Qty:4)
-Target player can use a power now

Dirge of the Lost (Qty:3)
-Each player may return a card from their trash to their hands.

Hymn for the Fallen (Qty:2)
-Flip an incapacitated hero character card over and that target gains 5 HP.

Finale (Qty:1)
-Siren deals X sonic damage to 1 non-hero target. X= # of song cards in the trash.

Emboldening Sonata (Qty:3)
-2 Target players may play a card now.

Enchanting Melody (Qty:3)
-2 non-hero targets deal 2 melee damage to each other.


Ongoing, Song (Qty:3)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandman's Lullaby (Qty:3)
-Play next to target non-hero. That target loses all abilities.
-Destroy this card at the beginning of your next turn.


Ongoing, Limited (Qty:4)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inspiration (Qty:2)
-When a song card is played, draw a card.

Encore (Qty:2)
-When a song card is played, you may activate its effect again immediately.


One-Shot (Qty:3)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Words of Power
-Search your deck for a song card and put it into your hand.
-Shuffle your deck
-Search your trash for a song card and put it into your hand.


Equipment (Qty:3)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Music Journal
-Power: Play a card



Any suggestions and recommendations would be most appreciated. This is the fourth hero of the series I am creating. My artist is pretty busy so no art yet. Always looking for a new artist if anyone is interested.

(Edit Notes)



Interesting hero concept. Sound base you have here (see what I did there?).

Major concerns though:
1.)Hymn of the Fallen: When a hero is incapacitated their whole deck is removed from play. I understand this is just a bullet point of what you want the cards to do, but it's important to clarify what it will do. Also, restoring a player from incap, even if it has only 2 copies, is VERY strong and potentially game breaking (my understanding is that other heroes have been playtested with this mechanic and it was never balance-able.) You'll need some additional opportunity cost to justify this effect.

2.) Encore + Finale = Damage >= Tachyon's Lightspeed Barrage. That's a lot of damage, even if her buildup cards aren't doing any that finale will do a lot. You may want to tone back Finale.

3.) Sandman's Lullaby. What do you mean by "loses all abilities"? It doesn't track with any official wording. Do you mean perhaps "treat the card next to this one as if it has no card text"? That would make it a pretty strong effect as well. Strong enough that either you restrict who it can be played on (i.e. Non-character target so no main villains) or give it an additional cost (deals damage to self, etc. etc.)

Other than that she seems pretty standard. Needs playtesting to see if she can do well. My concern is that she will feel very generic. Easy to understand but she doesn't really have much flavor to her. Her songs help her build up a finale, but finale is definitely her strongest card and she's supposed to primarily support. This doesn't really track. She needs some work but definitely has a lot of potential.
 
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Seamus Butler
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Re: Custom Hero - Siren
I got a little extra time so I got time for more detail with this one. mostly it's just rewording.

Quote:
Soothing Serenade (Qty:4)
-All hero targets gain 1 HP


Wording: Each hero target regains 1 HP.

Quote:
Hero's Ballad (Qty:4)
-Target player can use a power now


Wording: One hero may use a power now.

Quote:
Dirge of the Lost (Qty:3)
-Each player may return a card from their trash to their hands.


Wording: Each player may take one card from their trash to their hand.

Quote:
Hymn for the Fallen (Qty:2)
-Flip an incapacitated hero character card over and that target gains 5 HP.


This is a very powerful if situational card, the only similar card in official SotM is in the Sentinels and that only allows for one of the Sentinels to be flipped. You might however want to think about maybe adding a draw some cards to the flipped hero as they just popped back with nothing to play, it's a downside that might be good to keep but maybe not much fun for the player.

Quote:
Finale (Qty:1)
-Siren deals X sonic damage to 1 non-hero target. X= # of song cards in the trash.


This I would call kind of dangerous, it's quite similar to Tachyon's Lightspeed Barrage, however Tachyon only has 21 Burst cards in her deck, you have 30 Song cards. for someone who you describe as having "little damage" this is a really big hit.

Quote:
Emboldening Sonata (Qty:3)
-2 Target players may play a card now.


Wording: Two heroes may each play a card now.

Quote:
Sandman's Lullaby (Qty:3)
-Play next to target non-hero. That target loses all abilities.
-Destroy this card at the beginning of your next turn.


Wording: Play next to a non-hero target. While next to that target it has no card text.


Quote:
Inspiration (Qty:2)
-When a song card is played, draw a card.


Wording: Each time a Song card is played you may draw a card.

Also with 30 Song cards in your deck that's 3/4s of the cards you play let you draw an extra card.

Quote:
Encore (Qty:2)
-When a song card is played, you may activate its effect again immediately.


Again with 30 Song cards in your deck that's 3/4s of the cards you play let you repeat it's effects, particularly bad with Finale, two 30 point hits will kill just about any Villain by the time you've gotten that built up.


Quote:
Music Journal
-Power: Play a card


Not sure why you have three of these in your deck. It's not quite as good a power as her base power, since that can play from any deck, although it's a nice second option.
Also by her background there's nothing about a Journal that helps her along.
Can I suggest a slight buff to this card and reduce it to one or two copies and give her another can that gives her another power?
Given you wanted flexibility only having two powers that are pretty samey doesn't seem that flexible.


I hope that helps.
 
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Seamus Butler
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Re: Custom Hero - Siren
Sorry for spam but I just saw a really powerful combo between her cards.

Start of turn.

Play a card: Play a song card.

Inspiration (Qty:2)
-When a song card is played, draw a card.

Encore (Qty:2)
-When a song card is played, you may activate its effect again immediately.

Power: either
Base Power: Motivate
-Reveal the top card of a deck, play it or return it to the top of the deck.
Or
Music Journal
-Power: Play a card
If it's a Song card

Inspiration (Qty:2)
-When a song card is played, draw a card.

Encore (Qty:2)
-When a song card is played, you may activate its effect again immediately.

Draw a card.

End of turn.

With just two cards in play that's effectivly play four cards and draw three in one turn. however it gets a lot bigger if any of those cards are...

Quote:
Whisper of the Muse (Qty:3)
-Each player draws 1 card


Repeat effect for each player draws two crards, if you have two of them in your hand that could be each player draws 4 cards. Considering Team Leader Tachyon's power is considered one of the most powerful alongside Galvanize this is very big.

Quote:
Hero's Ballad (Qty:4)
-Target player can use a power now


for a lot of heroes it's not that big but if you build the right team including Argent Adept and anyone else that has poweres that let others use powers it can have pretty devestating, not to mention confusing effects and that's just doing it once.

Quote:
Hymn for the Fallen (Qty:2)
-Flip an incapacitated hero character card over and that target gains 5 HP.


With the repeat effect I'd have to call this card broken, also a game saver.

Quote:
Emboldening Sonata (Qty:3)
-2 Target players may play a card now.


Again with the repeat effect that's four plays, if you have two of them in your hand that's EIGHT card plays just during your turn, on top of that there's nothing here to say one of those card plays for each card can't be from Siren, triggering more draws and double effects, including playing the third of these cards for another four card plays.

not sure how the repeat effect would work with
Quote:
Sandman's Lullaby (Qty:3)
-Play next to target non-hero. That target loses all abilities.
-Destroy this card at the beginning of your next turn.

but that's potentially locking down both the Cahirman and Operative if you're playing against them. Or on the Dreamer wiping her card text doing six damage and you win as the loose condition on her card has been wiped out.

I do like the deck but I think it needs a rethink on card interaction.
 
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Joseph Guzman
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Re: Custom Hero - Siren
Thank you both for the input. It has helped me refine her deck quite a bit and I feel she is better for it. With the changes, anything more you think that could be done?
 
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Christopher Webb
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Re: Custom Hero - Siren
Ok so a few more things that should be reviewed. . .

Incapacitated Powers:
Wording more than anything but:
- A hero may use a power now.
- Choose a hero target. Increase the next damage dealt by that target by 1.
- A hero may draw a card now.

Emboldening Sonata MUST be limited, otherwise it's broken. Even as such if she pairs with Legacy that is a TON of bonus damage to a whole team.
Here's another idea: Siren has very few powers so why not give this card a power rather than just a passive?
Power: Another hero may use a power that deals damage now. Increase damage dealt by that power by 2.

Still increases damage, but not just constantly. On top of that you can now pass her powers around with some limited effect. (not all powers can be used by this.)

Also, Curse of the Siren doesn't really need to be non-character. It's not too strong to limit damage dealt by villain character cards or do consistent damage to them. However, as a general rule reducing damage dealt by villain targets needs some kind of opportunity cost (Expat has to play Liquid Nitrogen Rounds, preventing her from doing additional damage with other ammo cards. Wraith only deals 1 target 1 damage and must use a power for it). You may want to consider adding some kind of cost to maintaining this effect in play.

Also, a possible variant/other power that you could add to her deck. She would replace Tachyon as the hero with the most repeated Keyword in deck (Tachyon has 22 Burst cards. No one else repeats the same keyword on their cards as often as she does. It's why Super Scientific Tachyon can even be considered viable.) You may be able to take advantage of the shared keywords, perhaps giving her harmonic effects/melodic effects.
 
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Joseph Guzman
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Re: Custom Hero - Siren
Thank you for the suggestions, Have implemented them, in some exactly and others in new ways you have inspired. For the synergy you have suggested for taking advantage of the keywords, any suggestions on specifics? I agree she needs more to work with the song vibe, but have been beating my head against the wall for months to figure it out while trying to also keep up with making my other decks.
 
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Michael Hunter
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Re: Custom Hero - Siren
I'd question Motivate being play or replace. For a hero, you're pretty much always going with play, and on the offchance it's some absolutely terrible card you don't want to play, it then gets replaced and you have to deal with it next turn anyway? Maybe draw instead of replace so at least you get new options?

Dirge of the Lost looks VERY strong. Everyone draws a card is already pretty solid, and getting it from the trash is way better as you can get exactly the card you want. Maybe should just be one hero gets a card back?

I can't quite put my finger on it, but Sandman's Lullaby makes something inside me very worried. I suspect there is some villain this causes horribly rules issues with when played at the right time - or maybe I'm being paranoid. An example would be Wager Masters's Wagelings which are supposed to flip when destroyed, this would mean they just die. In that case, it's not a big deal, but they are definitely not *supposed* to die normally and I'm guessing somewhere this will be a big headache. Could just be prevents it dealing damage, or prevents its start of turn/end of turn triggers?

Is Piercing Scream intended to be ALL targets? 1 damage to just non-hero targets would already be pretty poor, hitting your friends to makes it near useless.

Haven't playtested, obviously, but Emboldening Sonata looks pretty great at +2 damage - your power becomes the best power amongst all your friends is already good, and damage bonus (especially on an AoE like Taiaha or Tempest) is excellent.

Curse of the Siren probably needs a bit more of a cost? Taking 1 damage to prevent 1 damage every time they attack is a no brainer. If they hit once you're already breaking even.



I would agree with the above that Siren seems functional and has a lot of solid supporty effects, but she doesn't feel that "special", yet different from Argent Adept with the music-y vibe. Mechanically, "Song" doesn't seem to mean that much - She has a bunch that are weakish supporty ones which all seem linked, but then there's one that's a disruptive ongoing, and one that's a supportive ongoing that don't fit the mold. Perhaps there's something that could be done there?

For example, if you limit "Songs" to being just weakish one-shots, that could then give you some design space for making them specifically easier to play without making her too strong. You could have a power as "Draw a card and play a song", or perhaps a one-shot that reveals from your deck till you reveal 2 songs and play both (powerful, but you never know what you're gonna get). Maybe a "Harmony" ongoing with something like "When you play a song, if there is another copy of that song in your trash, double the effect" or somesuch.

Just brainstorming, but I'd say she needs some kinda hook that makes her different to Parse or Argent Adept.
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Christopher Webb
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Re: Custom Hero - Siren
Adelphophage wrote:
I'd question Motivate being play or replace. For a hero, you're pretty much always going with play, and on the offchance it's some absolutely terrible card you don't want to play, it then gets replaced and you have to deal with it next turn anyway? Maybe draw instead of replace so at least you get new options?

Dirge of the Lost looks VERY strong. Everyone draws a card is already pretty solid, and getting it from the trash is way better as you can get exactly the card you want. Maybe should just be one hero gets a card back?

I can't quite put my finger on it, but Sandman's Lullaby makes something inside me very worried. I suspect there is some villain this causes horribly rules issues with when played at the right time - or maybe I'm being paranoid. An example would be Wager Masters's Wagelings which are supposed to flip when destroyed, this would mean they just die. In that case, it's not a big deal, but they are definitely not *supposed* to die normally and I'm guessing somewhere this will be a big headache. Could just be prevents it dealing damage, or prevents its start of turn/end of turn triggers?

Is Piercing Scream intended to be ALL targets? 1 damage to just non-hero targets would already be pretty poor, hitting your friends to makes it near useless.

Haven't playtested, obviously, but Emboldening Sonata looks pretty great at +2 damage - your power becomes the best power amongst all your friends is already good, and damage bonus (especially on an AoE like Taiaha or Tempest) is excellent.

Curse of the Siren probably needs a bit more of a cost? Taking 1 damage to prevent 1 damage every time they attack is a no brainer. If they hit once you're already breaking even.



I would agree with the above that Siren seems functional and has a lot of solid supporty effects, but she doesn't feel that "special", yet different from Argent Adept with the music-y vibe. Mechanically, "Song" doesn't seem to mean that much - She has a bunch that are weakish supporty ones which all seem linked, but then there's one that's a disruptive ongoing, and one that's a supportive ongoing that don't fit the mold. Perhaps there's something that could be done there?

For example, if you limit "Songs" to being just weakish one-shots, that could then give you some design space for making them specifically easier to play without making her too strong. You could have a power as "Draw a card and play a song", or perhaps a one-shot that reveals from your deck till you reveal 2 songs and play both (powerful, but you never know what you're gonna get). Maybe a "Harmony" ongoing with something like "When you play a song, if there is another copy of that song in your trash, double the effect" or somesuch.

Just brainstorming, but I'd say she needs some kinda hook that makes her different to Parse or Argent Adept.


You're probably right on a lot of these points adelophage.

As for giving Song cards a unique synergy, here's a concept I thought up of;

Song cards are now Ongoing cards rather than one-shots (cuz' I mean, come on. How often do you hear a really short piece of music you would actually call a song? Ultra short songs are usually called a diddy or something like that). These ongoings do the same effect they do know when they enter play and no long term function, however when other song cards enter play they can trigger the effects of other song cards already in play.

Some ongoings that she can put into play (that aren't songs) will allow her to trigger additional song cards when a song enters play (or perhaps just an additional effect when a song enters play not necessarily related to Songs in play). Then, we can have Finale (doesn't have to be just Finale, but this is a good one to start with) blow up all those song cards for a large effect (perhaps make finale allow her to bring back a teammate like her previous card did, but the amount of HP that hero comes back with is determined by the number of song cards you destroyed. In this way bringing friends back takes a large sacrifice of extra build up AND the specific card to be viable.)

This means she's sacrificing a lot of her options for a stronger individual effect.

Ok, that's my idea.
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Joseph Guzman
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Re: Custom Hero - Siren
I love your idea Rosgath. Will be implementing it. I also have ideas for some of the cards for your idea. Thank you much for the idea to give Siren the hook she needed.
 
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Michael Hunter
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Re: Custom Hero - Siren
Rosgath wrote:
You're probably right on a lot of these points adelophage.

As for giving Song cards a unique synergy, here's a concept I thought up of;

Song cards are now Ongoing cards rather than one-shots (cuz' I mean, come on. How often do you hear a really short piece of music you would actually call a song? Ultra short songs are usually called a diddy or something like that). These ongoings do the same effect they do know when they enter play and no long term function, however when other song cards enter play they can trigger the effects of other song cards already in play.

Some ongoings that she can put into play (that aren't songs) will allow her to trigger additional song cards when a song enters play (or perhaps just an additional effect when a song enters play not necessarily related to Songs in play). Then, we can have Finale (doesn't have to be just Finale, but this is a good one to start with) blow up all those song cards for a large effect (perhaps make finale allow her to bring back a teammate like her previous card did, but the amount of HP that hero comes back with is determined by the number of song cards you destroyed. In this way bringing friends back takes a large sacrifice of extra build up AND the specific card to be viable.)

This means she's sacrificing a lot of her options for a stronger individual effect.

Ok, that's my idea.


That's a cool idea! Songs being one-shots that hang around for future use with various other mechanics.

To keep it from being too similar to Argent Adept, I'd advise making it so the cards don't build up giving you more and more options, maybe they get destroyed when retriggered?

Perhaps something like...

Soothing Serenade (Ongoing, Song)
When played from your hand, a Hero target gains 3 HP.
Echo: Each hero target regains 1 HP.

Hero's Ballad(Ongoing, Song)
When played from your hand, a hero may use a power.
Echo: Increase the next damage done by a hero by 2.

This way you'll be naturally piling up Echos on the field in the course of normal play. The songs are fine, if not amazing by themselves, but now it gives the player a little goal, getting value out of them with various things. Some ideas would be...

Close Harmony (One-Shot)
If you have exactly two echos in play, activate the echo effect of each, then destroy both. Draw 2 cards.

Refrain (One-Shot)
Activate the echo effect of a song, then destroy it. You may play a card.

Curtain Call(One-Shot)
Activate the echo effect of any number of songs, then destroy any that were activated. Siren deals a target X sonic damage, where X is the number of songs destroyed this way.

Duet (Ongoing, Limited)
When you play a song, if you have another of that song in play already, you may activate the echo effect of both cards, then destroy them.


Don't mean to be too pushy about how you work your hero, but this is a pretty exciting idea Rosgath had, plenty of room to develop it!
 
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Joseph Guzman
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Re: Custom Hero - Siren
No worries and I absolutely agree. Gives a really cool mechanic. And honestly love your suggestions. A much better path for Siren. Will work on re-writing her a bit to implement your idea.
 
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Joseph Guzman
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Playtested her with a group of 5 against Spite, Agent of Gloom. Rough match, but Siren played very well and kept the group going, though just barely, to a win. Made some changes from suggestions made by playgroup. We feel she will play a bit better, but more playtesting is needed.
 
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