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Subject: Puzzles? rss

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Derek Thompson
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Has anyone made puzzles for this game already? I plan on using it in our Problem Solving (math) course next semester. Have the students play it and then give homework problems like, "Here's the scenario. If you give exactly the right clue, everyone will know where every card is... What clue do you give?" and so on.

Has anyone already made any "Hanabi puzzles" and if so could you please share them? Thanks!

Derek
 
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Tor Sverre Lund
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There's quite a few right here in the forum (like the 4th one down in the General area). There are also quite a few in the Strategy forum (look for the "quiz" named ones)
 
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Derek Thompson
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Gawain wrote:
There's quite a few right here in the forum (like the 4th one down in the General area). There are also quite a few in the Strategy forum (look for the "quiz" named ones)


EDIT: I've looked through all of them, and they are "what do you think is best" type questions. I'm looking for situations where the optimal play is mathematically deducible.
 
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Sean McCarthy
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Those just aren't very interesting compared to even routine situations from actual hanabi.
 
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Derek Thompson
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SevenSpirits wrote:
Those just aren't very interesting compared to even routine situations from actual hanabi.


The point is for them to have homework practicing logic, not to have open-ended discussions, unfortunately! There's absolutely room for both but I'd like to use it also to introduce some "hard" logic rather than "soft"
 
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Robb Effinger
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Here's a (slightly modified) situation that came up in a game a couple years ago:

It's a 5er game, Turn 1. Here's what you see. (Oops! I made these hands be 5 cards - that's not relevant for purposes of this puzzle)

P1: 4 3 3 2 4
P2: 4 5 1 1 4
P3: 5 2 2 1 4
P4: 4 3 4 2 1
P5: You!

Here's how the game plays:

Player 1 gives Player 2 a clue saying that his 3rd and 4th cards are 1s
Player 2 plays the G1, and draws a white 3
Player 3 gives you a clue about your 2nd and 3rd cards being 1s
Player 4 gives player 1 a clue saying that her 3rd and 4th cards are blue
Your turn - what do you do?
 
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Andy Latto
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Robb wrote:
Here's a (slightly modified) situation that came up in a game a couple years ago:

It's a 5er game, Turn 1. Here's what you see.

P1: 4 3 3 2 4
P2: 4 5 1 1 4
P3: 5 2 2 1 4
P4: 4 3 4 2 1
P5: You!

Here's how the game plays:

Player 1 gives Player 2 a clue saying that his 3rd and 4th cards are 1s
Player 2 plays the G1, and draws a white 3
Player 3 gives you a clue about your 2nd and 3rd cards being 1s
Player 4 gives player 1 a clue saying that her 3rd and 4th cards are blue
Your turn - what do you do?

I assume, based on payer 2's play, that the card with the smaller index, the one further left in your picture, is the "newer" card, and the one players would choose to play, everything else being equal.

I play the 4th card, not the 3rd. If this turns out to be the blue 1, as I expect, I hope player 1 will think about why I played the 4th card and not the third, and using the "unusual play calls for unusual play" principle, work out that he should play his 4th card rather than his 3rd.

If my card turns out to be a non-blue 1, then either I completely misunderstood what was going on, or player 4 was just using this as a way to give player 1 some useful information while getting me to play my 4th card instead of my third for other reasons that I don't yet understand. Maybe my 3rd card is the Black 1, and this way player 2 doesn't need to be warned off of playing his black 1 next? He'd have to have a lot of confidence that we're on the same wavelength to try something like that.

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Robb Effinger
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andylatto wrote:

I play the 4th card, not the 3rd. If this turns out to be the blue 1, as I expect, I hope player 1 will think about why I played the 4th card and not the third, and using the "unusual play calls for unusual play" principle, work out that he should play his 4th card rather than his 3rd.


I don't think it's even "unusual play calls for unusual play".

Spoiler (click to reveal)

From P4's perspective, P1 has the B 2 and 3, out of order. It's going to take two clues to get them both played - might as well give one now, there's no risk of P1 striking, since they see my B1, and you can correct their impression of the order next turn.

From my perspective, I know that P1s cards are out of order. So I know that if my 3rd card were the B1, then my regular play would cause P1 to strike. So I know that my 3rd card is not the B1. Further, I know that I am holding the B1, since if I'm not, then P1 will think they are, and try to play, also striking. So my 4th card must be the B1.

From P1's perspective, when they are first given the clue, they assume that they have the B2 and B3 in order, and that when I play my second 1, they'll start playing their 2 and 3. But then I play my second one first. This implies that I know that they were not supposed to be playing a Blue card this turn... but that they are going to be playing them next turn. The reason for that would be out of order


 
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Richard Sampson
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Robb wrote:
It's a 5er game, Turn 1. Here's what you see.

P1: 4 3 3 2 4
P2: 4 5 1 1 4
P3: 5 2 2 1 4
P4: 4 3 4 2 1
P5: You!

Is the 5 cards per player just for the purposes of the puzzle or do you actually play that way when you have 5 players?
 
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Robb Effinger
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ras2124 wrote:
Robb wrote:
It's a 5er game, Turn 1. Here's what you see.

P1: 4 3 3 2 4
P2: 4 5 1 1 4
P3: 5 2 2 1 4
P4: 4 3 4 2 1
P5: You!

Is the 5 cards per player just for the purposes of the puzzle or do you actually play that way when you have 5 players?


As I was constructing the hands, I was trying to figure out why I was having such a hard time filling them up... . I don't actually remember the exact hands, this was a couple years ago, I just remember the general situation. The 5-card hands is neither relevant for the purposes of the puzzle nor how I play a 5er game. I'll edit the original post with a note to that effect
 
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Richard Sampson
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Robb wrote:
As I was constructing the hands, I was trying to figure out why I was having such a hard time filling them up... . I don't actually remember the exact hands, this was a couple years ago, I just remember the general situation. The 5-card hands is neither relevant for the purposes of the puzzle nor how I play a 5er game. I'll edit the original post with a note to that effect
No worries, I was just curious if you did play that way if you had some reasoning or felt it was an improvement for your group in some way (making the game easier with more info or harder with some much info to keep track of).
 
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Andy Latto
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So when this came up in an actual game, was the information successfully communicated?
 
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Robb Effinger
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andylatto wrote:
So when this came up in an actual game, was the information successfully communicated?


Ya, it was. Which I was not confident of at the time at all, since it wasn't with a regular playgroup, it was at WBC - I'd probably played ~10 games with Elaine before that - taught her and others at WBC the previous year, and played a couple games with her online throughout the year.
 
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