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Corey Hopkins
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Trump, who can never admit he was wrong ever, still believes the Central Park Five are guilty, years after they were exonerated.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/06/politics/reality-check-donald-...
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James King
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chopkins828 wrote:
Trump, who can never admit he was wrong ever, still believes the Central Park Five are guilty, over a decade after they were exonerated.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/06/politics/reality-check-donald-...

Since empirical facts don't matter much in the delusional world of Donald Trump, should we reallybe surprised by this?


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Josh
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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


chopkins828 wrote:
Trump, who can never admit he was wrong ever, still believes the Central Park Five are guilty, over a decade after they were exonerated.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/06/politics/reality-check-donald-...

Since empirical facts don't matter much in the delusional world of Donald Trump, should we reallybe surprised by this?




Succinct! woot!
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Shadrach wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


chopkins828 wrote:
Trump, who can never admit he was wrong ever, still believes the Central Park Five are guilty, over a decade after they were exonerated.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/06/politics/reality-check-donald-...

Since empirical facts don't matter much in the delusional world of Donald Trump, should we reallybe surprised by this?




Succinct! woot!


Holy fucking shit. This is a great day. Either that or one of the Seven Seals has finally been opened.
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Pontifex Maximus
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chopkins828 wrote:
Trump, who can never admit he was wrong ever, still believes the Central Park Five are guilty, years after they were exonerated.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/06/politics/reality-check-donald-...



So how's that GOP minority outreach doing?
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Robert Wesley
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His V.P.-choice also 'malbelieved' with further 'incarcerating' "innocents" STILL!
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Walking on eggshells is not my style
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Those little bastards were guilty of something.
 
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David Dearlove
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Koldfoot wrote:
Those little bastards were guilty of something.

Don't ever be on a jury.
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DavidDearlove wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Those little bastards were guilty of something.

Don't ever be on a jury.


Don't ever vote.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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bbenston wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


chopkins828 wrote:
Trump, who can never admit he was wrong ever, still believes the Central Park Five are guilty, over a decade after they were exonerated.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/06/politics/reality-check-donald-...

Since empirical facts don't matter much in the delusional world of Donald Trump, should we reallybe surprised by this?




Succinct! woot!


Holy fucking shit. This is a great day. Either that or one of the Seven Seals has finally been opened.
Nope. I am still here.
 
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Boaty McBoatface
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DavidDearlove wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Those little bastards were guilty of something.

Don't ever be on a jury.
To be fair, everyone at some point is guilty of something.

That is what is so great about Trumperica. You can get punished for crimes you might have committed, it's libertarians at work.
 
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David Dearlove
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Koldfoot wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Those little bastards were guilty of something.

Don't ever be on a jury.


Don't ever vote.

Well as a UK citizen I won't vote for anything that you care about.
I suggest you go and live in the Philipines where justice seems to be moving in a direction you approve of.
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Christopher Dearlove
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Going off on a tangent.

Both America and England (*) have a jury system with a common origin. However they have diverged in several important ways.

- More widely used in the US. Mainly used for more serious criminal offences in England (some optionally).

- American jurors (in at least some places, I'm aware this may or may not apply everywhere) can and do discuss the trial, their deliberations and so on. That's an offence in England.

- Challenges in England, other than for obvious cause (e.g. knowing the defendant) are mainly out.

- Something I don't know about the American system. Juries in England can now be told about defendants' prior convictions. Supposedly only if it establishes a pattern. But that's quite generously (to the prosecution) interpreters.

- You can have majority verdicts in English cases. That doesn't mean 7-5, it's 10-2 at most, and only after trying for a unanimous verdict and the judge allows it when the jurors say they can't manage 12-0.

The English restrictions on juror secrecy are a bit much (even serious academics can't find out information) but the American free for all (and also during trials) is horrendous. It's a balancing of rights to free speech and fair trials, and fair trials are losing. Jury selection to, frankly, rig the jury also aren't reasonable.

Until recently I would probably have said the need for 12-0 was a plus for the American system. Experience (don't ask, you should be able to guess why) has moved me away from that. I'm not sure where the balance should be though. Part of that is would forcing 12-0 turn our 10-2 or 11-1 cases into 12-0 with more time? Research needed (but not allowed). Or (to contradict myself above) the American challenges weeds out the boneheaded who are unable to follow simple logic. (Like if it's agreed that A is true, and the judge says A means B - by law - then B is true.)

But it does mean you couldn't set Twelve Angry Men in England today.

But other than that what's my point? Nothing much, just a semi-relevant diversion. We of course have had cases with some similar characteristics, but even more emotively about terrorism. The Guildford Four I think few debated after the much later exoneration. The Birmingham Six there were certainly still plenty of people in the system indicating guilt even after.

(*) Scottish law is different. They have juries but the origins are different and the rules are different. To the extent that I don't know all the details even to the level above.
 
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Koldfoot wrote:
Those little bastards were guilty of something.


You have a known rapist confessing and his DNA on the victim, but it has to be them black kids?

Well guess the cat's out of the hood on thst one.
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David Dearlove
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Dearlove wrote:
Going off on a tangent.

Both America and England (*) have a jury system with a common origin. However they have diverged in several important ways.

- More widely used in the US. Mainly used for more serious criminal offences in England (some optionally).

- American jurors (in at least some places, I'm aware this may or may not apply everywhere) can and do discuss the trial, their deliberations and so on. That's an offence in England.

- Challenges in England, other than for obvious cause (e.g. knowing the defendant) are mainly out.

- Something I don't know about the American system. Juries in England can now be told about defendants' prior convictions. Supposedly only if it establishes a pattern. But that's quite generously (to the prosecution) interpreters.

- You can have majority verdicts in English cases. That doesn't mean 7-5, it's 10-2 at most, and only after trying for a unanimous verdict and the judge allows it when the jurors say they can't manage 12-0.

The English restrictions on juror secrecy are a bit much (even serious academics can't find out information) but the American free for all (and also during trials) is horrendous. It's a balancing of rights to free speech and fair trials, and fair trials are losing. Jury selection to, frankly, rig the jury also aren't reasonable.

Until recently I would probably have said the need for 12-0 was a plus for the American system. Experience (don't ask, you should be able to guess why) has moved me away from that. I'm not sure where the balance should be though. Part of that is would forcing 12-0 turn our 10-2 or 11-1 cases into 12-0 with more time? Research needed (but not allowed). Or (to contradict myself above) the American challenges weeds out the boneheaded who are unable to follow simple logic. (Like if it's agreed that A is true, and the judge says A means B - by law - then B is true.)

But it does mean you couldn't set Twelve Angry Men in England today.

But other than that what's my point? Nothing much, just a semi-relevant diversion. We of course have had cases with some similar characteristics, but even more emotively about terrorism. The Guildford Four I think few debated after the much later exoneration. The Birmingham Six there were certainly still plenty of people in the system indicating guilt even after.

(*) Scottish law is different. They have juries but the origins are different and the rules are different. To the extent that I don't know all the details even to the level above.

When I was a juror recently if we had a 12/0 rule then we would have had a mistrial as one of the jurors felt sorry for the defendant who was having a hard time in prison and looked a bit like her son. The fact that he had organised a robbery in which the victim was stabbed so many times that the ER doctors couldn't tell you how many wounds he had and was only saved because he was 3 minutes from the hospital didn't affect her view that he only wanted the victim frightened, despite the fact that he had sent a text saying "stick it in his neck" whilst organising the robbery to a guy with knife convictions.
So perhaps 11/1 is reasonable to deal with the stupider jurors.
[strictly this account is illegal]
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