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Xia: Embers of a Forsaken Star» Forums » Rules

Subject: Ice Damage and Armor Plating rss

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Dan Zielinski
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Can Ice Damage be placed in Armor Plating spaces?

I'm assuming YES... according to:


Quote:
Page 5: Ice Damage counts as normal damage


and

Quote:
Page 6: ... armor plating outfits can hold 1 damage (and only damage).


But the Tank Title card grants:

Quote:
Your Armor Plating Outfits can now hold 2 normal damage, or one ice damage, per space.


The "one Ice damage" exception was either written to:

... now allow Ice damage to be placed in Armor Plating where it wasn't originally allowed.

or

...just to avoid confusion during the Freezing Phase and what do to if a spot had 2 Ice Damage Markers... they wrote the rule to make sure a space can never have two.



EDIT: Additional point of confusion... The Mod piece itself only shows Orange Damage Marker Icons. Supporting that it Ice Damage can NOT be put in Armor Plating.

And while on that note...the Cargo Pod do not show Ember... Suggesting that Ember can't be placed in the Cargo Pods.
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Derek Dyer
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Quote:
And while on that note...the Cargo Pod do not show Ember... Suggesting that Ember can't be placed in the Cargo Pods.
This is a stretch. I see no reason to believe this is true, or that there is any correlation between the two. Does the picture on Pg6 of Persistent Memory also prove that that ship can not be equipped with a shield?

Ice damage can be placed, and will spread to, Armor Plating mods. If it didn't, then your ship could not be destroyed. A hold space is either frozen, or it is not, there would be no reason to put two Ice Damage in one space.

Tank is meant to allow you to take even more damage, but that doesn't matter to Ice Damage.



 
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Ira Fay
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Ember can go in cargo pods.

Ice Damage can go in armor plating (and only spreads into the ship through the single connection point).

The Tank title grants an extra bonus to normal damage in armor plating, and gives no benefit to ice damage in armor plating. (Design note: We had originally allowed 2 damage per space in armor plating, but then we got into situations where ice damage would spread through normal damage, or onto itself, or doubly onto adjacent spaces, and it got really messy really quickly. So for simplicity, we limited the Tank to only normal damage. It's still one of the most powerful benefits, as far as I'm concerned.)

I hope this helps!
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Dan Zielinski
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Calinor wrote:
This is a stretch. I see no reason to believe this is true, or that there is any correlation between the two.=


It's not a stretch at all. The "Buy" Icon on the Sumggler's Den shows only the 5 main resources and you can NOT buy Ember there. The Cargo Hold shows the same 5 main resources and thus it's not a stretch to think you can't place Ember there.

The entire purpose of Icons on games pieces to help explain the rules without having to refer to them. Consistency is demanded and I'm simply pointing out a few inconsistency I see as I try to teach the game.

This is the same as an earlier post I made where I mentioned that all the Mods need to have reminder numbers on them. Piercers should show a "-4." Mission Computer and GTS should have a "+2."

A designer agreed that it should be on there. Player testers who are already familiar with the rules said it was "easy to remember." That's the case of any game after you've played it 5+ times. Icons on the game board are to help people learn the game without having to remember. New players already have to remember the main big rules... they shouldn't have to also remember little things.

Ira wrote:

Ember can go in cargo pods.

Ice Damage can go in armor plating (and only spreads into the ship through the single connection point).


Thank you Ira for the clarification. It is as I suspected but I highly recommend changing the Icons on both the Armor Plating and the Cargo Pods to indicate this.
 
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Ira Fay
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rent13579 wrote:
Thank you Ira for the clarification. It is as I suspected but I highly recommend changing the Icons on both the Armor Plating and the Cargo Pods to indicate this.
Agreed. We should ideally be consistent with our iconography, and we definitely use the 5 cubes icon to mean "just those 5 cubes" on other places (like Smugglers' Den or Kei). So I do agree with you that it would be a nice improvement to include the Ember icon on the cargo pods. I've already passed on your idea to Cody, but as with the other things, it might be too late. We'll see! If this ends up not making it into the final game, we'll definitely include it in the FAQ on the site. And the rules hopefully make it relatively clear... And in the end, if everyone in the game is playing with the same rules, it will still be fair, and those outfits will still get use.
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Derek Dyer
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Quote:
It's not a stretch at all. The "Buy" Icon on the Sumggler's Den shows only the 5 main resources and you can NOT buy Ember there. The Cargo Hold shows the same 5 main resources and thus it's not a stretch to think you can't place Ember there.
I misunderstood your original statement, so I'm sorry for my response not making much sense.

You are of course right that icons should be used the same across the board.

I think the problem is that at one time that Icon actually stood for "all types" of cargo. So the inclusion of it on Cargo Pods made sense at that time, or for that reason. Then Ember was created (and honestly it doesn't matter if the chicken or the egg came first), and it didn't mean exactly the same thing.

While it still meant the same thing on the Cargo Pod, that any kind of cargo cube can be placed within... Ember was never meant to be sold at Smuggler's Bay. Buying two cubes worth 4k for 1k, simply doesn't work for game balance.

So it wasn't exactly like that Icon changed meaning, only that there is now this "odd case" to also consider.
 
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Dan Zielinski
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If it is too late for Icons. Is it too late for text on cards?

Changing the Tank ability to "... But still only 1 Ice Damage."
 
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