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Rising 5: Runes of Asteros» Forums » General

Subject: What makes a Hero? (Hero pledge contents) rss

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Jamie Johnson
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Greetings heroes,

I thought that today we could dive into the contents of the Hero pledge, more specifically the gameplay elements in order to give you a bit more detail on what you’ll be getting!



So let’s start with the board. First of all, as you may have noted with the standard game board: it’s pretty, and a good thing too but Vincent purposefully put a lot of effort into making it visually attractive and engaging. We could of made a smaller board, sure, but we didn’t feel like it would have the same immersive appearance that it does currently; the different zones laid out including the all-important gate in the middle, the rune “tracking area” serving as a constant reminder as to how far along you are in the puzzle and the character portraits with the reminders for their special abilities looking up at you.



So when we decided to offer an XL board, well, Vincent was pretty happy to say the least and the first thing he did was extend that artwork out to complete the landscape of Asteros, complete with the ominous red moon looming, the Rising 5’s ship “Saviour” and a more complete panoply of mountain ranges to frame them both. This brings the fully assembled board to 65cmx65cm or 125% its original size.



There are two parts to the XL board: one is for utility and the other for gameplay. The sideboard gives you a neat space to store all the game elements during play. Action, relic and artefact cards as well as the different tokens. The ship zone is the gameplay element. It’s one of the factors that not only allows you to bring some variation to your games but also to control the game’s difficulty level depending on who you’re playing with and what sort of experience you’re after.

Also I just want to take this opportunity to point out to any Agent level backers that the XL board wasn’t made at your loss. There are no dodgy crop lines or anything of the sort, it’s still a beautiful board with or without the extra parts.



In a normal game there is no penalty to losing a fight unless you roll an eclipse. With the ship zone however, that changes. When a character loses a fight, they are sent to the ship region which contains three spaces. Depending on where you lost the fight you are placed in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd area. Each player turn the hero moves down one zone until they are ready to be moved back onto the board again just like at the start of the game!

This adds a big chunk of risk to fights. You’ll either have to be very careful who you fight with or make sure that you’re supporting one another as much as possible in order to avoid getting the character locked out for a few turns!



Next up we have the new boss monsters. Although they retain the icon strength 5 that is common to all bosses but their rewards are unique!



First is The Watcher. A being that has appeared many times before in history. No-one knows exactly whose side he’s on but should he stand before you, you’ll have no choice but to take him down. Best him and the Watchers Cape will provide you with a huge boon whenever you choose to use it, giving you two green silk cubes as well as boosting the Eclipse track up by two!

Ash’Rannon is an ancient and powerful being. Orakl suspects that he is a remnant from before the Gate was first sealed, trapped on our side. He has survived over the millennia, slowly growing in power and waiting for the Gate to flicker back into life. This towering being is as close to immortal as you can get, however if you defeat him, the loss of power will leave him in somewhat of a…reduced state and desperate enough that he’ll aide you in an attempt to save his own skin. When you defeat him you take his token and put it on any region. Fights taking place in either of that region’s zones now get an automatic +1 to the combat dice roll!

Finally we have the being known as the “Spirit of Asteros”. Once a benevolent spirit that watched over the planet, it has slowly been driven mad by the presence of the gate and the incessant whispering of those trying to break through from the other side. With the gate now active it has sent this venerable spirit into a rage and should you encounter him, it would be a crime not to save this once noble being from its madness. The Twin Swords of Asteros will be your reward. Much like the Moonfire blade, these allow you to eliminate a monster, not one though but two! As long as they have a strength of 3 or less!



Finally we have the miniatures. These do not come with any particular special rules but they do allow you to replace the standees with some beautiful, 60mm (no that isn’t a typo, they really are that tall!), coloured models by the very talented David Pereira! They’re there not only to look great but also to make the game and the story even more immersive!



I think that tomorrow we’ll talk some more about Vincent’s contribution to the project, the artbook (the first one he’s ever published infact) and reveal a new item for those of you that are fans of his work!

Until next time heroes.
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David desJardins
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WhelpSlayer wrote:
In a normal game there is no penalty to losing a fight unless you roll an eclipse. With the ship zone however, that changes. When a character loses a fight, they are sent to the ship region which contains three spaces. Depending on where you lost the fight you are placed in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd area. Each player turn the hero moves down one zone until they are ready to be moved back onto the board again just like at the start of the game!


I just find it hard to understand why you tie this to paying a higher pledge level. I would prefer one set of rules.
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Steve
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It looks cool. I am just not a fan of putting game play elements behind such a large paywall, especially when that paywall is inflated in price by none game play elements. The pay this $90 (If US shipping stays as estimated), or you will never see these game play elements again only exacerbates my dislike of this situation. It would be one thing if it just came down to a new sculpt that just added variety (like CMON does), but I do not see this as the same.

There really should have been a base pledge, and extended edition (not KS exclusive, at least for the boards), and an extra special collectors edition that included the contents of the extended edition in addition to the miniatures and the art book. Heck, you could have even included signatures and maybe a small print to sweeten the deal for art fans and collectors even more. In a perfect world, you also should have had individual add-ons for the game play changing/enhancing elements so that an Agent backer could decide if they only wanted the board or the cards and not both.

It just does not feel right to me, but it is your Kickstarter and your product. I am sure many others have no issue with this and maybe some do, I do not know. I do know that this went from an instant back for me to a game I will likely not get. I personally cannot justify $90 (or maybe more if US shipping increases) on a 30 minute game, especially when I am only interested in game play elements and not superfluous additions that are helping to increase cost. The value is not there compared to games like Outlive and many others. I hope Pantheon does not take this stance because it will be another instant back I pass on. But then again, I am only one person and in the grand scheme matter not at all.

On the bright side, it looks like this is going to help me save money for Tiny Epic Quests, Kingdom Death, and a few other KS launching in October/November. Obviously this is just my opinion. If you agree or not it really does not change how I feel, but I respect everyone ones opinion and I am happy for those who think this is a none issue. I hope you have a great time playing this rather cool looking game!

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Jamie Johnson
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DaviddesJ wrote:

I just find it hard to understand why you tie this to paying a higher pledge level. I would prefer one set of rules.

It is still one set of rules, this is just a variant for those that want more of a challenge. Nothing super complicated to it.
fubarbox wrote:
It looks cool. I am just not a fan of putting game play elements behind such a large paywall, especially when that paywall is inflated in price by none game play elements. The pay this $90 (If US shipping stays as estimated), or you will never see these game play elements again only exacerbates my dislike of this situation. It would be one thing if it just came down to a new sculpt that just added variety (like CMON does), but I do not see this as the same.

There really should have been a base pledge, and extended edition (not KS exclusive, at least for the boards), and an extra special collectors edition that included the contents of the extended edition in addition to the miniatures and the art book. Heck, you could have even included signatures and maybe a small print to sweeten the deal for art fans and collectors even more. In a perfect world, you also should have had individual add-ons for the game play changing/enhancing elements so that an Agent backer could decide if they only wanted the board or the cards and not both.

It just does not feel right to me, but it is your Kickstarter and your product. I am sure many others have no issue with this and maybe some do, I do not know. I do know that this went from an instant back for me to a game I will likely not get. I personally cannot justify $90 (or maybe more if US shipping increases) on a 30 minute game, especially when I am only interested in game play elements and not superfluous additions that are helping to increase cost. The value is not there compared to games like Outlive and many others. I hope Pantheon does not take this stance because it will be another instant back I pass on. But then again, I am only one person and in the grand scheme matter not at all.

On the bright side, it looks like this is going to help me save money for Tiny Epic Quests, Kingdom Death, and a few other KS launching in October/November. Obviously this is just my opinion. If you agree or not it really does not change how I feel, but I respect everyone ones opinion and I am happy for those who think this is a none issue. I hope you have a great time playing this rather cool looking game!


Well, you call it a paywall but it’s not like this content wa free for us to produce, it’s actually a significant increase compared to the standard box. If it was easy to create content I’d understand your comment but this isn’t the case.
Also we’re not the only ones to put special content in a “deluxe” edition. On top of that ours is technically just a variant, it’s nothing that makes or breaks he game like some campaigns do where if you don’t have this or that model you can’t play that scenario etc.

Also, breaking everything down comes wth its own series of risks, more moving pieces means more errors can occur during manufacturing and shipping so keeping things slightly tighter just makes it a lot less accident prone and simpler for people to navigate. Not to mention it means that we know exactly what’s going into each box and can size it accordingly.

I understand the hesitation but I’ll just say, from my PoV when I buy games, it’s not about the game length it’s the experience. Take Crossing for example. You could argue that that game is way more expensive than it needs to be for a 5-10min game but it’s awesome and I don’t regret buying it because the hours of play I’ve had out of it have been worth every penny. I’m hoping that’s the way that people will see Rising 5.

If you want to talk about Outlive, well, when you really break it down there wasn’t any extra gameplay in the CE at all. It was all storage and minis. We don’t have that many models (thought they are a damn sight bigger and serve the same purpose) but we do have the SL board already in there, a cool artbook (though I understand not everyone wil be into that) and a few exclusive gameplay elements to sweeten the deal. It doesn’t look as much, which is the root of the problem to be honest but the value is the same.

Gameplay wise, well Outlive is a big 2hr Eurogame which you’re not going to break out all the time where as rising 5, well you can fit about 4 games of R5 into one Outlive and it’s not the same sort of ambiance. It’s a different type of game altogether but that doesn’t mean that it’s any less of one. In our eyes anyway. Also I just want to say that I’m not playing down Outlive there, I love that game and I’m very proud of what we did with it but this isn’t the same type of game.

So maybe that’s cleared a few things up, maybe not, I respect your choice either way and if you’re just looking to get the core R5 experience then the base game is more than enough.

That being said:I have been listening to comments here and elsewhere. Where as the CE has a lot of cool stuff, not “enough” of it is relevant for those that just want to play the game (without the bells and whistles). Know that we’d planned to up the contents with a special Essen event anyways so maybe you’ll think differently to it after that
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Steve
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WhelpSlayer wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:

I just find it hard to understand why you tie this to paying a higher pledge level. I would prefer one set of rules.

It is still one set of rules, this is just a variant for those that want more of a challenge. Nothing super complicated to it.
fubarbox wrote:
It looks cool. I am just not a fan of putting game play elements behind such a large paywall, especially when that paywall is inflated in price by none game play elements. The pay this $90 (If US shipping stays as estimated), or you will never see these game play elements again only exacerbates my dislike of this situation. It would be one thing if it just came down to a new sculpt that just added variety (like CMON does), but I do not see this as the same.

There really should have been a base pledge, and extended edition (not KS exclusive, at least for the boards), and an extra special collectors edition that included the contents of the extended edition in addition to the miniatures and the art book. Heck, you could have even included signatures and maybe a small print to sweeten the deal for art fans and collectors even more. In a perfect world, you also should have had individual add-ons for the game play changing/enhancing elements so that an Agent backer could decide if they only wanted the board or the cards and not both.

It just does not feel right to me, but it is your Kickstarter and your product. I am sure many others have no issue with this and maybe some do, I do not know. I do know that this went from an instant back for me to a game I will likely not get. I personally cannot justify $90 (or maybe more if US shipping increases) on a 30 minute game, especially when I am only interested in game play elements and not superfluous additions that are helping to increase cost. The value is not there compared to games like Outlive and many others. I hope Pantheon does not take this stance because it will be another instant back I pass on. But then again, I am only one person and in the grand scheme matter not at all.

On the bright side, it looks like this is going to help me save money for Tiny Epic Quests, Kingdom Death, and a few other KS launching in October/November. Obviously this is just my opinion. If you agree or not it really does not change how I feel, but I respect everyone ones opinion and I am happy for those who think this is a none issue. I hope you have a great time playing this rather cool looking game!


Well, you call it a paywall but it’s not like this content wa free for us to produce, it’s actually a significant increase compared to the standard box. If it was easy to create content I’d understand your comment but this isn’t the case.
Also we’re not the only ones to put special content in a “deluxe” edition. On top of that ours is technically just a variant, it’s nothing that makes or breaks he game like some campaigns do where if you don’t have this or that model you can’t play that scenario etc.

Also, breaking everything down comes wth its own series of risks, more moving pieces means more errors can occur during manufacturing and shipping so keeping things slightly tighter just makes it a lot less accident prone and simpler for people to navigate. Not to mention it means that we know exactly what’s going into each box and can size it accordingly.

I understand the hesitation but I’ll just say, from my PoV when I buy games, it’s not about the game length it’s the experience. Take Crossing for example. You could argue that that game is way more expensive than it needs to be for a 5-10min game but it’s awesome and I don’t regret buying it because the hours of play I’ve had out of it have been worth every penny. I’m hoping that’s the way that people will see Rising 5.

If you want to talk about Outlive, well, when you really break it down there wasn’t any extra gameplay in the CE at all. It was all storage and minis. We don’t have that many models (thought they are a damn sight bigger and serve the same purpose) but we do have the SL board already in there, a cool artbook (though I understand not everyone wil be into that) and a few exclusive gameplay elements to sweeten the deal. It doesn’t look as much, which is the root of the problem to be honest but the value is the same.

Gameplay wise, well Outlive is a big 2hr Eurogame which you’re not going to break out all the time where as rising 5, well you can fit about 4 games of R5 into one Outlive and it’s not the same sort of ambiance. It’s a different type of game altogether but that doesn’t mean that it’s any less of one. In our eyes anyway. Also I just want to say that I’m not playing down Outlive there, I love that game and I’m very proud of what we did with it but this isn’t the same type of game.

So maybe that’s cleared a few things up, maybe not, I respect your choice either way and if you’re just looking to get the core R5 experience then the base game is more than enough.

That being said:I have been listening to comments here and elsewhere. Where as the CE has a lot of cool stuff, not “enough” of it is relevant for those that just want to play the game (without the bells and whistles). Know that we’d planned to up the contents with a special Essen event anyways so maybe you’ll think differently to it after that


Thanks for the reply Jamie! I appreciate your point of view and I totally get it. I will add that I said a large pay wall for game play elements not included in the base game. I have no issue with a pay wall in general or I would not advocate add-ons. In no way did I want to suggest that you should not be paid for your work and if it was taken that way, I apologize. I do not think I suggested that though. As far as Outlive, that was my point. You offered a deluxe package (which I opted to buy) that added no game play elements to the base game. It was purely esthetic and it was nice having a choice that has zero impact (no matter how small) on the actual game.

With Outlive, you also provided an Add-on for the map, which also had no game play altering elements. It is not the case here. The hero pledge adds mechanics that are not part of the base game, no mater how you look at it or how small they are. That said, as I mentioned in another thread, I have not made up my mind. I look forward to seeing what you have in store. As far as a simple/short game being worth what a giant miniature game like CMON produces, its all about perspective and I am sure there would be many on both sides of that debate. I for one would never pay $80 for King of Tokyo because of the experience, for example, but I am sure many would. Again, thanks for your input!
 
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This game looks great, definitely in for the Hero pledge. Mastermind is my wife's favorite game and once we saw the additional content/complexity as well as great artwork we were sold! Would be great if it was ready by Gencon next year
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fubarbox wrote:


Thanks for the reply Jamie! I appreciate your point of view and I totally get it. I will add that I said a large pay wall for game play elements not included in the base game. I have no issue with a pay wall in general or I would not advocate add-ons. In no way did I want to suggest that you should not be paid for your work and if it was taken that way, I apologize. I do not think I suggested that though. As far as Outlive, that was my point. You offered a deluxe package (which I opted to buy) that added no game play elements to the base game. It was purely esthetic and it was nice having a choice that has zero impact (no matter how small) on the actual game.

With Outlive, you also provided an Add-on for the map, which also had no game play altering elements. It is not the case here. The hero pledge adds mechanics that are not part of the base game, no mater how you look at it or how small they are. That said, as I mentioned in another thread, I have not made up my mind. I look forward to seeing what you have in store. As far as a simple/short game being worth what a giant miniature game like CMON produces, its all about perspective and I am sure there would be many on both sides of that debate. I for one would never pay $80 for King of Tokyo because of the experience, for example, but I am sure many would. Again, thanks for your input!


No, you are right there, the Deluxe version does contain a small amount of special content that isn’t a variable (via the XL board). It was meant to help valorise the CE pledge but from that point of view I can see the issue. In any case thanks for hearing me out and know that I do appreciate talks like this, constructive criticism is always a good thing If you have any other questions don't hesitate ^^


jimithy wrote:
This game looks great, definitely in for the Hero pledge. Mastermind is my wife's favorite game and once we saw the additional content/complexity as well as great artwork we were sold! Would be great if it was ready by Gencon next year


Well as I said on the project page, it probably would be sooner so you may just well get your wish ^^
 
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fubarbox wrote:
I personally cannot justify $90 (or maybe more if US shipping increases) on a 30 minute game, especially when I am only interested in game play elements and not superfluous additions that are helping to increase cost.


Agreed. In the same price range you can back a CMON game that comes with a billion addons or get a game like Mechs vs Minions ($75!!!). Wait for the game to hit Coolstuff or Miniature Market, you will get it for about $30.
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Hell, if the only thing that concerns you is the money/content ratio then sure I can't really argue with that. Bit of a shame though if you ask me.
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Thanks for clarifying the difference between the Hero and Agent pledges.

But +1 to the number of people turned off by the "Hero combo" of gameplay and component additions. To be more specific, I'd in effect be paying $30 for what seems like a mini-expansion. I'd also be getting extra or upgraded components, but they interest me far less.
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So guys, I have been listening to all your feedback and I want to say that you guys are right about the XL boards. Now understand that this originated from a simple idea. We thought an XL board would be cool and Vincent wanted to do more art. We added the rules in to give it a "raison d'être" but we purposefully kept the rules simple so that others didn't feel cheated. Obviously this hasn't been teh case, which is fine, to be honest I see it as a good thing that people want to get the full experience!

So, I think we will be putting the XL boards up as an AO for those that want them I'll let you guys know more this week
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WhelpSlayer wrote:
So guys, I have been listening to all your feedback and I want to say that you guys are right about the XL boards. Now understand that this originated from a simple idea. We thought an XL board would be cool and Vincent wanted to do more art. We added the rules in to give it a "raison d'être" but we purposefully kept the rules simple so that others didn't feel cheated. Obviously this hasn't been teh case, which is fine, to be honest I see it as a good thing that people want to get the full experience!

So, I think we will be putting the XL boards up as an AO for those that want them I'll let you guys know more this week


Thanks for showing more care than most developers, especially on KS. This is the reason I have followed you to each of the projects you have been involved with since Conan. I am sorry I felt the need to voice a contrary opinion this time. I felt really bad doing it, especially because I highly respect the level of professionalism and awesomeness you tend to bring to a campaign. You are likely the best community manager on KS to be honest. That said, if you do decide (the group of you) to add the map as an add-on, will it be an entire extra map ala Outlive or will it be just the 2 side pieces to cut down on cost? Also, will everything fit in the Agent box? Thanks again Jamie!
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fubarbox wrote:


Thanks for showing more care than most developers, especially on KS. This is the reason I have followed you to each of the projects you have been involved with since Conan. I am sorry I felt the need to voice a contrary opinion this time. I felt really bad doing it, especially because I highly respect the level of professionalism and awesomeness you tend to bring to a campaign. You are likely the best community manager on KS to be honest. That said, if you do decide (the group of you) to add the map as an add-on, will it be an entire extra map ala Outlive or will it be just the 2 side pieces to cut down on cost? Also, will everything fit in the Agent box? Thanks again Jamie!


First of all, sorry for the late reply, Essen has just whooped my ass this past week!

Secondly, thank you so much for the compliments! I really appreciate the support!

And thirdly: As you can see we just added the two side boards as seperate (along with the boss cards) as the board is the same in both cases. And yes, it will fit in the Agent box
 
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